The meaing of mathematics in Against the Day.....

[Mark Kohut]

Modernity....."all that is solid melting into air"....from Marx and metaphorized in AtD. The whole grounding of our common life-----gone.

Also applies to mathematics worked out metaphorically as no one else could have done.

That is one layer of AtD, leaves of the/an overarching theme..............


 


----- Original Message ----
From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
To: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 6:29:24 PM
Subject: Re: The meaing of mathematics in Against the Day.....

Well this is doubtless outside my mathematical depth but if the foundations of how math works and what constitutes mathematical truth is being questioned it seems legitimate to map those foundational questions  and the consequent  disturbance onto the other debates of the time and I , for one, feel that Pynchon is doing that, though  I don't see a truly precise maths discussion. Anyway I think Ms Engelhardt's central point is a bit more modest than what you are addressing.

Also I have no doubt that mathematics can be seen as an independent logical art form which at the highest levels is mostly philosophical or aesthetic, but it is also a foundational tool of virtually every other science and cannot be completely divorced from that historic and practical role.

I think that is probably all I have to say and it stems quite a bit from the fact that I really like ATD and admire how Pynchon weaves these ideas into what is for me an entertaining novel. I can, by the way, completely understand how and some of why a different reader would dislike the book.  Nor do I think that if others "got it" they would like it. Sometimes that just makes it worse.

On Mar 18, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Ray Easton wrote:

> Joseph Tracy wrote:
>> Engelhardt's quote from ATD seems pretty strong Does someone have a page reference?
>> I don't know about a crisis" being discussed", but a foundational crisis in science and math is clearly and intentionally reflected in ATD, albeit perhaps more implicit than explicit.  The scene with the sci-mathers on the Vormance Expedition has different metaphoric implications. But one strong interpretation has to be  to see this expedition as a picture of digging into the secrets of  light and energy, and  of subatomic energy bound in the forbidding frozen wastes of the world-transforming realm of math and physics. We are looking at the science that pointed toward nuclear weapons, but also toward relativism in physics  with that relativism implicitly mapping onto ethics, politics etc.  Also  the scientific bickering in the Vormance  reflects  debate and the reactionary defense of turf that has to do with questions about the foundations of the scientific enterprise.  Maybe the phrase "foundational crisis" means something more than I am
 understanding, but I found Egelhardt's essay well argued and compatible with my own reading.
>> 
> I make no claims about what foundational questions in physics are or are not discussed in AtD.  I am talking about mathematics.
> 
> The phrase "foundational crisis" in reference to mathematics does have a pretty specific meaning, and the "foundational crisis" has nothing to do with any "applications" of mathematics, including physics.  It is concerned with the purely theoretical, or philosophical -- specifically with the nature of mathematical truth.
> 
> BTW, my observation was not meant as a criticism of AtD.  Though I loathe AtD, I am not claiming that the lack of a serious discussion of "the crisis in mathematics" is a fault.
> 
> Ray
>