The meaing of mathematics in Against the Day.....

[Joseph Tracy]

Well this is doubtless outside my mathematical depth but if the  
foundations of how math works and what constitutes mathematical truth  
is being questioned it seems legitimate to map those foundational  
questions  and the consequent  disturbance onto the other debates of  
the time and I , for one, feel that Pynchon is doing that, though  I  
don't see a truly precise maths discussion. Anyway I think Ms  
Engelhardt's central point is a bit more modest than what you are  
addressing.

Also I have no doubt that mathematics can be seen as an independent  
logical art form which at the highest levels is mostly philosophical  
or aesthetic, but it is also a foundational tool of virtually every  
other science and cannot be completely divorced from that historic  
and practical role.

I think that is probably all I have to say and it stems quite a bit  
from the fact that I really like ATD and admire how Pynchon weaves  
these ideas into what is for me an entertaining novel. I can, by the  
way, completely understand how and some of why a different reader  
would dislike the book.  Nor do I think that if others "got it" they  
would like it. Sometimes that just makes it worse.

On Mar 18, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Ray Easton wrote:

> Joseph Tracy wrote:
>> Engelhardt's quote from ATD seems pretty strong Does someone have  
>> a page reference?
>> I don't know about a crisis" being discussed", but a foundational  
>> crisis in science and math is clearly and intentionally reflected  
>> in ATD, albeit perhaps more implicit than explicit.  The scene  
>> with the sci-mathers on the Vormance Expedition has different  
>> metaphoric implications. But one strong interpretation has to be   
>> to see this expedition as a picture of digging into the secrets  
>> of  light and energy, and  of subatomic energy bound in the  
>> forbidding frozen wastes of the world-transforming realm of math  
>> and physics. We are looking at the science that pointed toward  
>> nuclear weapons, but also toward relativism in physics  with that  
>> relativism implicitly mapping onto ethics, politics etc.  Also   
>> the scientific bickering in the Vormance  reflects  debate and the  
>> reactionary defense of turf that has to do with questions about  
>> the foundations of the scientific enterprise.  Maybe the phrase  
>> "foundational crisis" means something more than I am  
>> understanding, but I found Egelhardt's essay well argued and  
>> compatible with my own reading.
>>
> I make no claims about what foundational questions in physics are  
> or are not discussed in AtD.  I am talking about mathematics.
>
> The phrase "foundational crisis" in reference to mathematics does  
> have a pretty specific meaning, and the "foundational crisis" has  
> nothing to do with any "applications" of mathematics, including  
> physics.  It is concerned with the purely theoretical, or  
> philosophical -- specifically with the nature of mathematical truth.
>
> BTW, my observation was not meant as a criticism of AtD.  Though I  
> loathe AtD, I am not claiming that the lack of a serious discussion  
> of "the crisis in mathematics" is a fault.
>
> Ray
>