(no subject)

[Ian Livingston]

There is much wisdom in whiskey.

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com> wrote:
> A friend and bartender once opined that the two halves of the Bible
> should be renamed as "How to" books. The Old Testament should be
> renamed "How to Live in a Middle-Eastern Desert 3000 Years Ago". The
> New Testament should be renamed "How to Live Under Roman Occupation".
> Since neither of those conditions currently exist....
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Of course, there might be another way of looking at it. (At least
>> one.) To say that the later Jewish offspring are fallacious copies of
>> the original, in the context of the religions themselves, suggests
>> that the original is more pure, therefore more true, while, in fact,
>> the later religions grew out of a no-longer adequate set of metaphors.
>> Judaism could not answer the question of why there came to be a Rome,
>> or of how to live with Roman hegemony in the Med. Christianity offered
>> a way to adapt to Rome, and eventually adopt it and give it a new life
>> in a further changing world. Protestantism and Islam, of course,
>> evolved in the same way. Christianity meant little to drifters and
>> herdsmen in the decaying post-Seleucid / post-Roman desert where
>> Zoroastrianism was busily decaying; and Rome was taking away too much
>> dough from northern Europe in the form of imposed tithes and phony
>> indulgences for the purpose of funding the Renaissance in the Papal
>> States and what would one day become northern Italy. So, each evolved
>> to accommodate pressures from the outside, not to copy a purer
>> original. People need a central organizing idea, or they cannot form
>> themselves into nations, the fractability of Protestantism and Islam
>> made nations possible by supplying a steadily morphing moral center
>> for each evolving group. In other words, to say that religions copy
>> better originals is approximately parallel to saying that evolving
>> species copy better originals. And one could say that, though
>> believing it might prove difficult.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Richard Ryan <himself at richardryan.com> wrote:
>>> Christianity has characteristically been regarded as either a radical
>>> and inspired re-vision of Judaism or a grotesque and heretical
>>> spin-off of it.  You're right, Ed, that the
>>> Judaism>Catholicism>Protestantism sequence traces the distorted copy
>>> of a distorted copy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 4:39 PM,  <edmoorester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> TR
>>>>
>>>> I get the impression Judaism was in part a streamlined monotheism meme that
>>>> spread relatively well
>>>> drawing from various tribal myths
>>>>
>>>> . . .then a "copy" or Jewish cult aka Christianity/Catholicism arose
>>>> (rejecting certain aspects of "original")
>>>>
>>>> . . .then a "copy" called Protestantism arose (rejecting certain aspects of
>>>> "original")
>>>>
>>>> . . .also a "copy" came about called Islam (uhh I am nervous about
>>>> mentioning that one)
>>>>
>>>> Prophets typically hate phonies so Gaddis has that quality
>>>>
>>>> Just before GR's balloon scene (cannot find my copy right now) Pynchon goes
>>>> into some detail on his
>>>> family's involvement with the Salem witch trials and I bet some of those
>>>> accusers considered themselves
>>>> prophets
>>>>
>>>> ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Ryan
>>> New York and the World
>>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>>> Come see VTM's new production!
>>> www.kingstheplay.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>
>



-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant