(no subject)

[Richard Ryan]

And much spirituality in gin. <Urp.>

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is much wisdom in whiskey.
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A friend and bartender once opined that the two halves of the Bible
>> should be renamed as "How to" books. The Old Testament should be
>> renamed "How to Live in a Middle-Eastern Desert 3000 Years Ago". The
>> New Testament should be renamed "How to Live Under Roman Occupation".
>> Since neither of those conditions currently exist....
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Of course, there might be another way of looking at it. (At least
>>> one.) To say that the later Jewish offspring are fallacious copies of
>>> the original, in the context of the religions themselves, suggests
>>> that the original is more pure, therefore more true, while, in fact,
>>> the later religions grew out of a no-longer adequate set of metaphors.
>>> Judaism could not answer the question of why there came to be a Rome,
>>> or of how to live with Roman hegemony in the Med. Christianity offered
>>> a way to adapt to Rome, and eventually adopt it and give it a new life
>>> in a further changing world. Protestantism and Islam, of course,
>>> evolved in the same way. Christianity meant little to drifters and
>>> herdsmen in the decaying post-Seleucid / post-Roman desert where
>>> Zoroastrianism was busily decaying; and Rome was taking away too much
>>> dough from northern Europe in the form of imposed tithes and phony
>>> indulgences for the purpose of funding the Renaissance in the Papal
>>> States and what would one day become northern Italy. So, each evolved
>>> to accommodate pressures from the outside, not to copy a purer
>>> original. People need a central organizing idea, or they cannot form
>>> themselves into nations, the fractability of Protestantism and Islam
>>> made nations possible by supplying a steadily morphing moral center
>>> for each evolving group. In other words, to say that religions copy
>>> better originals is approximately parallel to saying that evolving
>>> species copy better originals. And one could say that, though
>>> believing it might prove difficult.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Richard Ryan <himself at richardryan.com> wrote:
>>>> Christianity has characteristically been regarded as either a radical
>>>> and inspired re-vision of Judaism or a grotesque and heretical
>>>> spin-off of it.  You're right, Ed, that the
>>>> Judaism>Catholicism>Protestantism sequence traces the distorted copy
>>>> of a distorted copy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 4:39 PM,  <edmoorester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> TR
>>>>>
>>>>> I get the impression Judaism was in part a streamlined monotheism meme that
>>>>> spread relatively well
>>>>> drawing from various tribal myths
>>>>>
>>>>> . . .then a "copy" or Jewish cult aka Christianity/Catholicism arose
>>>>> (rejecting certain aspects of "original")
>>>>>
>>>>> . . .then a "copy" called Protestantism arose (rejecting certain aspects of
>>>>> "original")
>>>>>
>>>>> . . .also a "copy" came about called Islam (uhh I am nervous about
>>>>> mentioning that one)
>>>>>
>>>>> Prophets typically hate phonies so Gaddis has that quality
>>>>>
>>>>> Just before GR's balloon scene (cannot find my copy right now) Pynchon goes
>>>>> into some detail on his
>>>>> family's involvement with the Salem witch trials and I bet some of those
>>>>> accusers considered themselves
>>>>> prophets
>>>>>
>>>>> ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Ryan
>>>> New York and the World
>>>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>>>> Come see VTM's new production!
>>>> www.kingstheplay.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>



-- 
Richard Ryan
New York and the World
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Come see VTM's new production!
www.kingstheplay.com