(no subject)

[Ian Livingston]

Ol' Paul, ya know, he was a wild one. Musta been a little slip o' the
pen that let that one through. Of course, distillation hadn't come
along, yet, and the most powerful spirits were still in wine. The
alchemists delivered brandy a thousand years later.

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Richard Ryan <himself at richardryan.com> wrote:
> A shining grail of elixir in "The Dark Night of the Soul."  For as
> Saint Paul observes (2 Corinthians 3:6) "the letter killeth, but the
> spirits give life."
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com> wrote:
>> a-and of course there's Vitamin V.
>> "manymany cases of vodka and a troupe of performing chimpanzees...."
>> --Gravity's Rainbow
>> (don't mean to take off the bridle but Rev Gwyon develops a interesting
>> relationship with schnapps, a wholly other "spirit of the book")
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Richard Ryan <himself at richardryan.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And much spirituality in gin. <Urp.>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > There is much wisdom in whiskey.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> A friend and bartender once opined that the two halves of the Bible
>>> >> should be renamed as "How to" books. The Old Testament should be
>>> >> renamed "How to Live in a Middle-Eastern Desert 3000 Years Ago". The
>>> >> New Testament should be renamed "How to Live Under Roman Occupation".
>>> >> Since neither of those conditions currently exist....
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Ian Livingston
>>> >> <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> Of course, there might be another way of looking at it. (At least
>>> >>> one.) To say that the later Jewish offspring are fallacious copies of
>>> >>> the original, in the context of the religions themselves, suggests
>>> >>> that the original is more pure, therefore more true, while, in fact,
>>> >>> the later religions grew out of a no-longer adequate set of metaphors.
>>> >>> Judaism could not answer the question of why there came to be a Rome,
>>> >>> or of how to live with Roman hegemony in the Med. Christianity offered
>>> >>> a way to adapt to Rome, and eventually adopt it and give it a new life
>>> >>> in a further changing world. Protestantism and Islam, of course,
>>> >>> evolved in the same way. Christianity meant little to drifters and
>>> >>> herdsmen in the decaying post-Seleucid / post-Roman desert where
>>> >>> Zoroastrianism was busily decaying; and Rome was taking away too much
>>> >>> dough from northern Europe in the form of imposed tithes and phony
>>> >>> indulgences for the purpose of funding the Renaissance in the Papal
>>> >>> States and what would one day become northern Italy. So, each evolved
>>> >>> to accommodate pressures from the outside, not to copy a purer
>>> >>> original. People need a central organizing idea, or they cannot form
>>> >>> themselves into nations, the fractability of Protestantism and Islam
>>> >>> made nations possible by supplying a steadily morphing moral center
>>> >>> for each evolving group. In other words, to say that religions copy
>>> >>> better originals is approximately parallel to saying that evolving
>>> >>> species copy better originals. And one could say that, though
>>> >>> believing it might prove difficult.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Richard Ryan
>>> >>> <himself at richardryan.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> Christianity has characteristically been regarded as either a radical
>>> >>>> and inspired re-vision of Judaism or a grotesque and heretical
>>> >>>> spin-off of it.  You're right, Ed, that the
>>> >>>> Judaism>Catholicism>Protestantism sequence traces the distorted copy
>>> >>>> of a distorted copy.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 4:39 PM,  <edmoorester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>> TR
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I get the impression Judaism was in part a streamlined monotheism
>>> >>>>> meme that
>>> >>>>> spread relatively well
>>> >>>>> drawing from various tribal myths
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> . . .then a "copy" or Jewish cult aka Christianity/Catholicism arose
>>> >>>>> (rejecting certain aspects of "original")
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> . . .then a "copy" called Protestantism arose (rejecting certain
>>> >>>>> aspects of
>>> >>>>> "original")
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> . . .also a "copy" came about called Islam (uhh I am nervous about
>>> >>>>> mentioning that one)
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Prophets typically hate phonies so Gaddis has that quality
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Just before GR's balloon scene (cannot find my copy right now)
>>> >>>>> Pynchon goes
>>> >>>>> into some detail on his
>>> >>>>> family's involvement with the Salem witch trials and I bet some of
>>> >>>>> those
>>> >>>>> accusers considered themselves
>>> >>>>> prophets
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ed
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Richard Ryan
>>> >>>> New York and the World
>>> >>>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>>> >>>> Come see VTM's new production!
>>> >>>> www.kingstheplay.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>>> >>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>>> >>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>>> >>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>>> >>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>>> > creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>>> > trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>>> > of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>>> > than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Ryan
>>> New York and the World
>>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>>> Come see VTM's new production!
>>> www.kingstheplay.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Ryan
> New York and the World
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> Come see VTM's new production!
> www.kingstheplay.com
>



-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant