a little more McLuhan (& maybe Pynchon)

[cfabel]

Might not even have to do that. Their IQs are ascending due to selective
breeding. 

 

C. F. Abel

Chair

Department of Government

Stephen F. Austin State University

Nacogdoches, Texas 75962

(936) 468-3903

 

 

 

From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf
Of David Morris
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:06 PM
To: alice wellintown
Cc: pynchon -l
Subject: a little more McLuhan (& maybe Pynchon)

 

I think animals are better language prospects than AI. Just add some DNA.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2011, alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
wrote:
> In the same book by Pinker, _The Language Instinct_, in Chapter 7,
> "Talking Heads", he tosses the robots in the trash and kicks the AI
> enthusiasts to the curb. Robots can't do the smple tasks that infant
> humans are born doing. BTW, computers can not play chess. He also
> makes fun of the idea of animal languages. Animal and computer
> languages like Pluto, not planets.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
wrote:
>> On 8/30/2011 5:05 PM, cfabel wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure if this helps or just reveals my own misunderstanding of
what's
>> going on here, but I believe there is quite a passel of research
suggesting
>> strongly that mental operations exist prior to the onset of language,
>> conversation by gesture, and social interaction. So it seems not
>> unreasonable to hypothesize, at least, that some of us "think" without
>> words. But, language is not just significant symbols but syntax and
syntax
>> seems to be part of our bio-inheritance, part of our pre-social
mind-brain
>> (Chomsky's "language faculty?"). So, syntax, probably, is neither learned
>> nor constructed socially and this suggests a reversal of the model of
>> symbolic interaction, mind, language, and the self. Bio-inheritance
first,
>> symbolic interaction follows, probably?
>>
>>
>>
>> This sounds very relevant to Mark's question. The symbol consciousness
seems
>> to be kind of an overlay placed upon the real show going on in the neural
>> networks.    AI theorists model both neural networks and symbol
manipulation
>> in order to provide a better understanding for the design of robots.
>>
>> Also there are the neuroscience findings (brain imaging) that support the
>> idea that our nervous systems make decisions for us before we are even
aware
>> of them.  Throws into doubt so called "free will."
>>
>> P
>>
>>
>>
>> C. F. Abel
>>
>> Chair
>>
>> Department of Government
>>
>> Stephen F. Austin State University
>>
>> Nacogdoches, Texas 75962
>>
>> (936) 468-3903 <tel:%28936%29%20468-3903>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Mark Kohut
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:27 PM
>> To: David Morris
>> Cc: alice wellintown; David Payne; Paul Mackin; pynchon -l
>> Subject: Re: a little more McLuhan (& maybe Pynchon)
>>
>>
>>
>> This has been a fascinating, because more puzzling than usual, thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not know what I may be "mistaking" my word-thinking for, since I am
>> just offering it as a phenomenon.
>>
>> I do not know if it comes from some learned or innate 'grammar".........
>>
>> Yes, I KNOW it slows me down --in reading anyway. (Although I have
various
>> speeds--as we all do?)
>>
>> How word-thinking is connected to my auditory sense, I do not know
either,
>> except that, as I wrote, it happens
>>
>> when I listen to TV, say, so that sense is involved. Happens (mostly)
when I
>> read in quiet. happens when I write.
>>
>> Sometimes when I 'think", I think.
>>
>>
>>
>> And, I am sure I 'think', experience much mentally, in other ways than in
>> words as well. Not to even mention the Unconscious.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just wondered who else is like me in this regard. What they think it
might
>> mean for our orientation in the world.
>>
>> And, for whom this may NOT be true.............and what that might mean
for
>> them...
>>
>>
>>
>> And how societies might handle the dirfferences.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> To: alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
>> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 2:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: a little more McLuhan (& maybe Pynchon)
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:34 AM, alice wellintown
>> <alicewellintown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  I think McLuhan would say that, even on a gray scale, black & white are
>>> qualitatively different......like literate vs. pre-literate even on a
gray
>>> scale
>>>
>>> He w 

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