NP - And Greece created Europe: the cultural legacy of a nation in crisis

[David Morris]

Claro!
But my point was about PIGS of Yurp analyzed as poor US states. NOT about
Anti progressive US tax history.  It's about US vs Yurp nationalism(s). The
Euro may have been a more progressive concept than individual nationalisms
could uphold.

Euro structure not allowing quick monetary expansion (print more money) is
the real villian. But ECB is Old Gold obsessed, a sort of monetary BSM
fetish, so musty 29's.

On Thursday, November 17, 2011, Bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Way to go, Laura!   I'm proud to know you.   :-)
>
> Bekah
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2011, at 1:17 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> I agree, Joseph, that the world is in for a desolate few hundred years,
as nation states fall, and Global Corporate Giants duke it out over control
of diminishing resources (like oil and clean water).  There will be the
Haves (people living comfortably within Global Corporate spheres of
influence)and the Have-nots (people currently living in the poorer areas of
Europe and Asia, most of central Africa, the rust belt and Plains areas of
the US) who are at the mercy of war lords and drug lords and only
occasionally some sort of makeshift democratic and/or anarchistic state).
>>
>> OK, admittedly this is just my own half-baked theory, but it seems
consistent with the trend.  I just spent 31 hours in police custody after
getting arrested for trespassing at an Occupy Wall Street event, and it did
make me realize that certain aspects of the nation-state, such as
military/prison/surveillance are of use to the corporate powers-that-be and
could be retained long after other government functions have withered away.
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> Sent: Nov 17, 2011 3:56 PM
>>> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>> Subject: Re: NP - And Greece created Europe: the cultural legacy of a
nation in crisis
>>>
>>> I picked up on this thread because I was enjoying the many  sharp
thoughts.  I think we both see the conundrum here where if the Euro zone
project trumps democratic process and imposes leadership on debtor
countries, it is also democracy at stake. Should nations really be
privately owned and managed for international corporate profit? And  behind
the Euro vail it looks to many like the big banks who are pressuring the
Euro-union taxpayers who have been frugal and realistic to insure the bad
debt of banks and governments which have not..  As far as the US rich
states and poor, I don't think that argument is comparable on several
levels, and question the core premise.
>>>
>>> As far as the rest of the world being hurt, I just think the hurt of
the world is a done deal: oceans fished out, growing contamination of
water,  infrastructure and food supply dependence on fossil fuels, massive
climate change, and large scale international financial fraud, growing
wealth divide, 7 billion and exponentially growing . The opportunities for
corporate profits are diminished and bloody. And what has been built with
all that money is a giant machine for burning fossil fuel.   The dream of
propping up the current system without deep structural changes is a
delusion that is pointing toward a fork in the road. And as  a famous Yogi
said, "When you see a fork in the road, take it."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:44 AM, David Morris wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing is there is no option of "fixing" this mess. A large
transition is overdue and inevitable..Why be afraid of letting the big
banks die? The sooner people face the future without dragon lairs in their
dreams the better.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it's the Euro that's at stake here more than some big banks.
>>>> And if Europe's economy tail-dives, the rest of the world will also be
>>>> hurt.  The problem in Yurp is political at its base:  Yurp wanted a
>>>> common currenct,butisn't willing to act for a common good.  In the US
>>>> rich states routine subsidize poor states through Federal taxes, and
>>>> no one feels abused.
>>>
>>
>
>
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