frank miller

[Ian Livingston]

> My conclusion: if they get some media attention, spark some
> discussion, and avoid both getting slaughtered (always a sad event)
> and undercutting meliorist factions (to the great gain of intransigent
> reactionaries) by making the perfect the enemy of the good...that
> would seem to be a reachable success that I could applaud...
>

Dang! Where's the "Like" button?


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Michael Bailey
<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm.  What does affect these evildoers?
> Mass civil disobedience in bringing their operations to a halt would
> be something to see
> but who will bell that cat?
>
> so many problems -
>
> a) a charismatic leader is vulnerable to assassination or cooptation,
> but without articulate spokespeople the message is muddled
>
> b) a mass movement is vulnerable to agents provocateur and the human
> frailties of its participants
>
> c) the supply lines for simply keeping body and soul together in the
> act of challenging established evildoers are problematic too (I always
> wonder how somebody sustains a long protest - who's feeding their cat,
> paying their electric bill, watching their kids?)
>
> d) predicating action on an adversarial relationship tilts the playing
> field in favor of those who continually practice adversarial
> techniques (nightmarish big guys swinging lead pipes, eg) - when you
> look back at the 60s, those who scoffed at people "working within the
> system" don't seem to have achieved as much, in retrospect, as those
> at whom they scoffed...
>
> My conclusion: if they get some media attention, spark some
> discussion, and avoid both getting slaughtered (always a sad event)
> and undercutting meliorist factions (to the great gain of intransigent
> reactionaries) by making the perfect the enemy of the good...that
> would seem to be a reachable success that I could applaud...
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Right. If no pays attention to the problem, the problem is permitted
>> unfettered growth. The problem is not OWS, they draw attention to the
>> problem.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Michael F <mff8785 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What truly shows how half-baked alot of these Occcupy movements are:
>>> the money corporations are in Danville and San Ramon and
>>> Dublin/Pleasanton(20-30 minutes outside of Oakland).  And these guys
>>> are messing with one Fortune 500 hundred company, which will leave
>>> sooner than later, and other smaller businesses that are giving tax
>>> revenues to a broken Oakland?  Rather than using strategy to succeed,
>>> these Occupy folks are just looking to get media attention, which is
>>> what there true goal is... attention.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:45 PM, glenn <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> There is an Occupy San Francisco  movement in the SF financial district
>>>> which has been going on as long as Occupy Oakland, as well as an Occupy
>>>> Berkeley, Occupy UC, (which is located on UC Berkeley Campus),  Occupy San
>>>> Jose, Occupy San Raphael, hell even an Occupy Walnut Creek, (though occupy
>>>> WC doesn't have any encampments).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/14/2011 02:27 PM, Humberto Torofuerte wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Never met any Oakland cops (sounds like I am better off for it) so
>>>>> I'll reserve judgement...but why not take the train across the bay and
>>>>> occupy San Francisco's financial district...where all the banks and
>>>>> hedge funds are?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Ian Livingston<igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah well somebody has to keep those Raiders fans in line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, well, it probably won't be the cops who do that. The cops are
>>>>>> all Raiders fans and would rather be bashing activist heads.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Humberto Torofuerte
>>>>>> <strongbool at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:19 PM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And Oakland's cops really are pigs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:19 PM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not everyone can make it to Wall Street.  I see it as a solidarity
>>>>>>>>> statement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Humberto Torofuerte
>>>>>>>>> <strongbool at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  I don't think cities like Portland or Oakland are where the
>>>>>>>>>> financial engineering of destruction was happening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>>>>>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>>>>>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>>>>>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>>>>>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>
>



-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant