frank miller

[Michael F]

Michael B.,

Nice Post.  You make  great points.

Ian,

Everyone knows how these Fortune 500 CEO's are living, how
smaller/medium-sized corporations are not held accountable for
falsification of quarterly reports, and how our politicians(both dem
and repub) are playing the game: amplification of the issue is not
needed.  I think the OWS folks, like little kiddies, are drawing
attention to their selves and not an "issue".  From the start if the
OWS wanted to make positive change, they'd be occupying the streets in
front of the local, state, and federal level politicians(both repub
and dem).  Mad at Wall Street?  Who is giving them the money?  Who is
allowing it to go on?  The politicians.  Are they trying to make the
Gordon Gecko's of the world feel guilty?  If so, their plan is not
even half-baked, its foolish and silly.

The Occupy-thing is not making change, its just people crying and
wallowing, and making the lives of many hardworking lower and middle
class Americans that much more difficult.

Mike

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My conclusion: if they get some media attention, spark some
>> discussion, and avoid both getting slaughtered (always a sad event)
>> and undercutting meliorist factions (to the great gain of intransigent
>> reactionaries) by making the perfect the enemy of the good...that
>> would seem to be a reachable success that I could applaud...
>>
>
> Dang! Where's the "Like" button?
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Michael Bailey
> <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hmm.  What does affect these evildoers?
>> Mass civil disobedience in bringing their operations to a halt would
>> be something to see
>> but who will bell that cat?
>>
>> so many problems -
>>
>> a) a charismatic leader is vulnerable to assassination or cooptation,
>> but without articulate spokespeople the message is muddled
>>
>> b) a mass movement is vulnerable to agents provocateur and the human
>> frailties of its participants
>>
>> c) the supply lines for simply keeping body and soul together in the
>> act of challenging established evildoers are problematic too (I always
>> wonder how somebody sustains a long protest - who's feeding their cat,
>> paying their electric bill, watching their kids?)
>>
>> d) predicating action on an adversarial relationship tilts the playing
>> field in favor of those who continually practice adversarial
>> techniques (nightmarish big guys swinging lead pipes, eg) - when you
>> look back at the 60s, those who scoffed at people "working within the
>> system" don't seem to have achieved as much, in retrospect, as those
>> at whom they scoffed...
>>
>> My conclusion: if they get some media attention, spark some
>> discussion, and avoid both getting slaughtered (always a sad event)
>> and undercutting meliorist factions (to the great gain of intransigent
>> reactionaries) by making the perfect the enemy of the good...that
>> would seem to be a reachable success that I could applaud...
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Right. If no pays attention to the problem, the problem is permitted
>>> unfettered growth. The problem is not OWS, they draw attention to the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Michael F <mff8785 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What truly shows how half-baked alot of these Occcupy movements are:
>>>> the money corporations are in Danville and San Ramon and
>>>> Dublin/Pleasanton(20-30 minutes outside of Oakland).  And these guys
>>>> are messing with one Fortune 500 hundred company, which will leave
>>>> sooner than later, and other smaller businesses that are giving tax
>>>> revenues to a broken Oakland?  Rather than using strategy to succeed,
>>>> these Occupy folks are just looking to get media attention, which is
>>>> what there true goal is... attention.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:45 PM, glenn <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> There is an Occupy San Francisco  movement in the SF financial district
>>>>> which has been going on as long as Occupy Oakland, as well as an Occupy
>>>>> Berkeley, Occupy UC, (which is located on UC Berkeley Campus),  Occupy San
>>>>> Jose, Occupy San Raphael, hell even an Occupy Walnut Creek, (though occupy
>>>>> WC doesn't have any encampments).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/14/2011 02:27 PM, Humberto Torofuerte wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never met any Oakland cops (sounds like I am better off for it) so
>>>>>> I'll reserve judgement...but why not take the train across the bay and
>>>>>> occupy San Francisco's financial district...where all the banks and
>>>>>> hedge funds are?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Ian Livingston<igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah well somebody has to keep those Raiders fans in line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, well, it probably won't be the cops who do that. The cops are
>>>>>>> all Raiders fans and would rather be bashing activist heads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Humberto Torofuerte
>>>>>>> <strongbool at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:19 PM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And Oakland's cops really are pigs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:19 PM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone can make it to Wall Street.  I see it as a solidarity
>>>>>>>>>> statement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Humberto Torofuerte
>>>>>>>>>> <strongbool at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I don't think cities like Portland or Oakland are where the
>>>>>>>>>>> financial engineering of destruction was happening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>>>>>>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>>>>>>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>>>>>>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>>>>>>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>