frank miller

[Michael Bailey]

Joseph, thanks for the counter-list!  I enjoy reading your viewpoint,
which I think of as idealist, activist and compassionate and also
aroused to anger through compassion...

Just to make sure you distinguish, though, the list was mine, Michael
B's (a person somewhat supportive in a small way to OWS and similar
causes, and a bleeding heart liberal) - my caveats are those of a
(mostly) sympathizer.  I believe in (most of) the New Deal, I think
Social Security and Medicare are worth keeping, I think the Bush tax
cuts proved that tax cuts don't help, I favor Greg Palast over Milton
Friedman and I favor Michael Hudson's analysis over Austrian
economics...I think Howard Roark was kind of a dork...

Michael F - I think you have stronger philosophical objections to the
OWS movement than mine, and probably different stances on the issues
above as well as others.  I enjoy reading what I tend to think of as
your libertarian views...


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> now to your list
> a) without a single leader many articulate leaders  and artists have been embraced and participated eloquently: Naomi Klein, Chris Hedges, Michael Moore, Arundhati Roy, Ry Cooder, Russel Simmons, SEIU leader Mary Henry, Cornel West, Asmaa Mahfouz (key leader of Tahrir square revolution), and many, many new voices powerfully addressing the gap between those with and without a say in their lives.
> b) but time after time it is the unconstitutional behavior and excessive force of "authorities"that is being revealed in glaring and unflattering light. Neverthless these young people feel wiser , more peaceful, and more eager to work with the cops and others while not giving up their occupation of public space, than those led by more radical elements in the 60's.  I try to follow quaker peace methods( not that great at it), but watching the film Burma vj has shaken my faith in the power of non-violent resistance pretty deeply. We are far from a place where violence makes any sense,and iam the first to argue that a violentrevolution tends to produce violent authoritarian leaders, but sometimes a bully needs to learn the hard way and people will protect themselves.
> c)No doubt this is very tough and the reason I am not there though I have been arrested  this year with vets for peace. One can also be in a supporting role and there has been much support. The key is that paying this price has produced a huge wave of support, disruption of the status quo, and exposure of the widespread discontent with the Power of Wall street and purchase of democracy. It's a creative tactic and it seems to be unleashing new creative tactics and provoking dissenters to be creative.
> d)Not sure I buy the idea that those who stayed in the system had the largest effect .  Could be an interesting topic to pursue? Also  those who did have an effect usually did not scoff at the 60s revolution but took it to wherever they were from Dan Ellsberg to Angela Davis, to Gloria Steinem, to Thomas Pynchon.
>
> One of the things I like about OWS is the importance of self education. They have a library, assemblies, speakers, and these are important. Lot of photos of young adults reading.
>
> My thoughts on OWS, 350.org, Democracy Now, Alternet, Michael Moore, the various components of the world wide anti-war and human justice movement. THIS IS IT. THIS IS WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO CHANGE DIRECTION . This is the hope that Obama promised but failed to occupy. Both parties work for international corporate interests and the Military. The differences are trivial. THIS IS THE REMNANTS OF DEMOCRACY IN THE US.
>
> On Nov 18, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Michael Bailey wrote:
>