OccupyWallStreet

[Costas Stergiou]

Hi everybocy,

 For anyone interested, I suggest they look up the Open Democracy movement
here <http://amesi-dimokratia.org/en> (better known through media as
"Indignants" movement), though movement doesn't really describe the
situation. Also, the original spanish Indignados movement. Of course,
Europe's problem are not the same with those of US, but the base of the
problems, as also the basic principles of all these movements, are about the
same. Your discussion and the points made by all sides of the above argument
reminds me of discussions made in Greece constantly over the past year. The
protests over here are more massive (as are the problems I guess), there was
one about three months ago when, just in Athens, the estimates for the
number of protesters were (exaggerating of course, but not much) as high as
500.000 people.

     I particularly relate with Laura's report. Though coming from a
staggeringly unlike background and having experiences as different as about
3 decades age difference and one being from USA and the other from Greece
can allow, the text could have been written (excluding the obvious) for the
protests in Syntagma Square. I completely share her optimistic views, having
acquired the same uplifting emotional boost from these peaceful (at least
before the greek police intervenes using, traditionally, tear gas)
gatherings. In her epilogue Laura articulates (much better than I ever
could) exactly my thoughts on what's happening and it's sure reassuring and
invigorating for younger people like me (I'm 29 by the way) to see others,
that have protested, fought and anguished for these matters for more time
than I've even been on this planet, retain their optimism, clear head and
enthusiasm for change and improvement.

      Thank you,

     Costas

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Thanks, Laura - great report. Wish I were there.
>
> Bekah
>
>
>
> On Oct 1, 2011, at 8:05 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > I just got back from spending the day at the Wall Street Occupation.
> >
> > Some impressions:  young college kids may have been the largest group
> present, but there were plenty of other types represented - old,
> middle-aged, black, hispanic, asian, yuppie, homeless, working-class, etc.
>  Most of those present seemed to be people who were just passing through,
> milling around by themselves (as I was) or with a friend or two.
> >
> > I've been going to demonstrations and protests all my life, starting with
> Ban the Bomb protests when I was a toddler, on through all of the Vietnam
> War moratoria in the early '70s, the huge women's march in the summer of
> 1970, student anti-apartheid protests, the Occupy Wall Street civil
> disobedience (circa '79), the big pro-choice rally in Washington in the
> '90s, the slew of anti-Gulf War, anti-Invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.,
> and, most recently, the pro-Ground Zero area "mosque" demo.  What I can say
> about this one is that it was the most genuinely, earnestly decentralized,
> democratic event I've ever been to.  The Usual Suspect - Organized Left
> Groups were there, but their presence was subdued.
> >
> > There was no speakers platform, and no loudspeakers.  When one of the
> nameless background organizers (and of course there were these people, there
> always are, but they never gave the impression of being a closed group, and
> we male and female and multi-racial) wanted to make an announcement, they'd
> yell "Mike check." and everyone around them would respond "mike check."
>  Then sentence by sentence, the crowd would repeat the announcement so that
> it would travel through the crowd.  It didn't work as well as the organizers
> hoped, but it sure made a good impression.  People who really wanted to be
> in the swim of things stayed close to the portable-gas-engine-powered media
> area, where most of the announcements arose.
> >
> > Further, where the Vietnam protesters of yore separated themselves by
> dressing as what outsiders could deride as "hippie freaks," these protesters
> were distinguished by the occasional button or slogan t-shirt, but otherwise
> blended in with the dress and demographics of passers by (of which there
> were a lot - this being a busy intersection in lower Manhattan, clogged with
> tourists, shoppers and working people.
> >
> > At one point local congressperson Charles Rangel came to the edge of the
> crowd and yelled his support for the protest.  A number of people booed him
> as part of the problem, and one belligerent young man tried to approach him,
> screaming insults.  Some people tried to physically prevent the B.Y.M. from
> attacking Rangel, and for a moment there was a scuffle.  But everyone
> surrounding them started chanting "peaceful protest!" and the situation was
> diffused before it could get out of hand. Crowds are inherently dangerous,
> and there's always the danger of agitators, stampedes, psychos, etc.  But
> there's a critical mass of civil disobedience types in this crowd that makes
> it somewhat safer.
> >
> > Although there wasn't any specific demonstration called for, while I was
> there, people started calling for a March, and soon about 1,000 of us, give
> or take were marching towards (purportedly) City Hall.  At that point some
> people made the ill-advised decision to march across the bridge.  I, and a
> lot of people, decided to hang back, because there didn't seem to be any
> point going all the way to Brooklyn.  The police started to disperse us and
> simultaneously they closed the bridge's roadway to cars.  Later they
> confronted the people on the bridge and arrested lots of them.  I returned
> to the original occupation site and was amazed to see that it was just as
> crowded as it had been before the march.  It started to rain and night fell,
> but, if anything the plaza was even more crowded by then.
> >
> > Will this lead to the overthrow of capitalism or any activity in
> congress?  Of course not.  There are some nay-sayers here who seem to think
> that invalidates this mini-movement.  Personally, I was incredibly heartened
> to be surrounded by so many people who were assembled to discuss ideas and
> fight for social change.  Sure, plenty of them were filled with
> contradictory and illogical ideas.  I saw a number of people with Ron Paul
> buttons, for example.  Bit so what?  Are the protesters less valid than,
> say, young people who go out clubbing or mall-hopping?  I like the
> protesters better than their apolitical youth-consumer counterparts.  Is
> there anyone here who really think protesters here, in Spain, anywhere, even
> if their protest eventually fizzle to nothingness, have made the world a
> worse place?
> >
> > I'm proud of the earnest organizers and participants in this occupation.
>  Eventually, they'll use their creaky, incompetent, consensual
> decision-making process to come up with a list of coherent demands.
>  Eventually, the protest will fizzle out.  But not for a while, mostly
> because there's no one person and no group of people, with the authority to
> officially end it.  And when it does end, it will inspire others.  It will
> make an imperceptible but real contribution to the tipping point.  Maybe not
> this year or this century, but some day.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Oct 1, 2011 3:06 PM
> >> To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet
> >>
> >> There is also this:
> http://act.credoaction.com/pages/ca_ag/?rc=fb_share4
> >>
> >> Wake up! Act up!
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Ian Livingston <
> igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> First, I offer up a little Patti Smith for the masses:
> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8C9U7pMvmc
> >>>
> >>> Then, I'll offer up that at least one of my young acquaintances is
> >>> involved with Occupy California, an offspring, I guess of the Wall
> >>> Street movement. Here's their facebook page:
> >>> https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/OccupyCalifornia Maybe there are
> >>> other Occupy groups in your area. Don't just admire the splinter in
> >>> the thumb, rub salt in behind it.
> >>>
> >>> I have hope with these under 30s. There are a number of wide-awake
> >>> people among them. With the backing of a few of their elders, they are
> >>> becoming more outspoken and bolder as time goes on. I laud and support
> >>> them whole-heartedly, and I will soon be back in the world where I can
> >>> be a part of the action, so I can put my mug in the line, too. The
> >>> time for talk is nearly at an end. We have to act if we are going to
> >>> get our government involved in the change that must happen if we are
> >>> to regain (or establish) any dignity as a people. The Capitalist
> >>> Revolution of the 18th Century has run its course and its impetus must
> >>> be redirected. We can be a part of how that impetus gets directed. We
> >>> are not too old to act. So shut up, print your banners, and hit the
> >>> streets, and then speak up. Loudly.
> >>>
> >>> The protests of the 60s and 70s were organized to a point and then
> >>> more people joined. The same has been true through the Arab Spring. It
> >>> was a minority that showed up with full cognizance of the importance
> >>> of being there, but without that minority, the majority would never
> >>> have dared it.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> Did BofA pick the wrong week to raise the price of crack? So to
> speak....
> >>>>
> >>>> @RebelCapitalist RebelCapitalist
> >>>> As Movement Grows, Thousands In Boston Protest Against Bank Of
> America’s
> >>>> Greed http://j.mp/qvEPT8 #occupytogether
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
> >>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
> >>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
> >>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
> >>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
> >> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
> >> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
> >> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
> >> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
> >
>
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