OccupyWallStreet

[Ian Livingston]

Thank you, Laura and Costas, for your insightful comments on this
movement. I am with you both in the hope that this is an important
step toward developing an agenda for change that everyone can read. I
applaud everyone who acts in support of this movement, wherever they
live.

Costas, I loved staying in Athens 25 years ago and have always longed
to return. Keep up your good work.

Unemploy the bankers!

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Costas Stergiou <gorgonos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everybocy,
>  For anyone interested, I suggest they look up the Open Democracy movement
>  here (better known through media as "Indignants" movement), though movement
> doesn't really describe the situation. Also, the original spanish Indignados
> movement. Of course, Europe's problem are not the same with those of US, but
> the base of the problems, as also the basic principles of all these
> movements, are about the same. Your discussion and the points made by all
> sides of the above argument reminds me of discussions made in Greece
> constantly over the past year. The protests over here are more massive (as
> are the problems I guess), there was one about three months ago when, just
> in Athens, the estimates for the number of protesters were (exaggerating of
> course, but not much) as high as 500.000 people.
>      I particularly relate with Laura's report. Though coming from a
> staggeringly unlike background and having experiences as different as about
> 3 decades age difference and one being from USA and the other from Greece
> can allow, the text could have been written (excluding the obvious) for the
> protests in Syntagma Square. I completely share her optimistic views, having
> acquired the same uplifting emotional boost from these peaceful (at least
> before the greek police intervenes using, traditionally, tear gas)
> gatherings. In her epilogue Laura articulates (much better than I ever
> could) exactly my thoughts on what's happening and it's sure reassuring and
> invigorating for younger people like me (I'm 29 by the way) to see others,
> that have protested, fought and anguished for these matters for more time
> than I've even been on this planet, retain their optimism, clear head and
> enthusiasm for change and improvement.
>
>       Thank you,
>      Costas
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Laura - great report. Wish I were there.
>>
>> Bekah
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2011, at 8:05 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> > I just got back from spending the day at the Wall Street Occupation.
>> >
>> > Some impressions:  young college kids may have been the largest group
>> > present, but there were plenty of other types represented - old,
>> > middle-aged, black, hispanic, asian, yuppie, homeless, working-class, etc.
>> >  Most of those present seemed to be people who were just passing through,
>> > milling around by themselves (as I was) or with a friend or two.
>> >
>> > I've been going to demonstrations and protests all my life, starting
>> > with Ban the Bomb protests when I was a toddler, on through all of the
>> > Vietnam War moratoria in the early '70s, the huge women's march in the
>> > summer of 1970, student anti-apartheid protests, the Occupy Wall Street
>> > civil disobedience (circa '79), the big pro-choice rally in Washington in
>> > the '90s, the slew of anti-Gulf War, anti-Invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq,
>> > etc., and, most recently, the pro-Ground Zero area "mosque" demo.  What I
>> > can say about this one is that it was the most genuinely, earnestly
>> > decentralized, democratic event I've ever been to.  The Usual Suspect -
>> > Organized Left Groups were there, but their presence was subdued.
>> >
>> > There was no speakers platform, and no loudspeakers.  When one of the
>> > nameless background organizers (and of course there were these people, there
>> > always are, but they never gave the impression of being a closed group, and
>> > we male and female and multi-racial) wanted to make an announcement, they'd
>> > yell "Mike check." and everyone around them would respond "mike check."
>> >  Then sentence by sentence, the crowd would repeat the announcement so that
>> > it would travel through the crowd.  It didn't work as well as the organizers
>> > hoped, but it sure made a good impression.  People who really wanted to be
>> > in the swim of things stayed close to the portable-gas-engine-powered media
>> > area, where most of the announcements arose.
>> >
>> > Further, where the Vietnam protesters of yore separated themselves by
>> > dressing as what outsiders could deride as "hippie freaks," these protesters
>> > were distinguished by the occasional button or slogan t-shirt, but otherwise
>> > blended in with the dress and demographics of passers by (of which there
>> > were a lot - this being a busy intersection in lower Manhattan, clogged with
>> > tourists, shoppers and working people.
>> >
>> > At one point local congressperson Charles Rangel came to the edge of the
>> > crowd and yelled his support for the protest.  A number of people booed him
>> > as part of the problem, and one belligerent young man tried to approach him,
>> > screaming insults.  Some people tried to physically prevent the B.Y.M. from
>> > attacking Rangel, and for a moment there was a scuffle.  But everyone
>> > surrounding them started chanting "peaceful protest!" and the situation was
>> > diffused before it could get out of hand. Crowds are inherently dangerous,
>> > and there's always the danger of agitators, stampedes, psychos, etc.  But
>> > there's a critical mass of civil disobedience types in this crowd that makes
>> > it somewhat safer.
>> >
>> > Although there wasn't any specific demonstration called for, while I was
>> > there, people started calling for a March, and soon about 1,000 of us, give
>> > or take were marching towards (purportedly) City Hall.  At that point some
>> > people made the ill-advised decision to march across the bridge.  I, and a
>> > lot of people, decided to hang back, because there didn't seem to be any
>> > point going all the way to Brooklyn.  The police started to disperse us and
>> > simultaneously they closed the bridge's roadway to cars.  Later they
>> > confronted the people on the bridge and arrested lots of them.  I returned
>> > to the original occupation site and was amazed to see that it was just as
>> > crowded as it had been before the march.  It started to rain and night fell,
>> > but, if anything the plaza was even more crowded by then.
>> >
>> > Will this lead to the overthrow of capitalism or any activity in
>> > congress?  Of course not.  There are some nay-sayers here who seem to think
>> > that invalidates this mini-movement.  Personally, I was incredibly heartened
>> > to be surrounded by so many people who were assembled to discuss ideas and
>> > fight for social change.  Sure, plenty of them were filled with
>> > contradictory and illogical ideas.  I saw a number of people with Ron Paul
>> > buttons, for example.  Bit so what?  Are the protesters less valid than,
>> > say, young people who go out clubbing or mall-hopping?  I like the
>> > protesters better than their apolitical youth-consumer counterparts.  Is
>> > there anyone here who really think protesters here, in Spain, anywhere, even
>> > if their protest eventually fizzle to nothingness, have made the world a
>> > worse place?
>> >
>> > I'm proud of the earnest organizers and participants in this occupation.
>> >  Eventually, they'll use their creaky, incompetent, consensual
>> > decision-making process to come up with a list of coherent demands.
>> >  Eventually, the protest will fizzle out.  But not for a while, mostly
>> > because there's no one person and no group of people, with the authority to
>> > officially end it.  And when it does end, it will inspire others.  It will
>> > make an imperceptible but real contribution to the tipping point.  Maybe not
>> > this year or this century, but some day.
>> >
>> > Laura
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>> >> Sent: Oct 1, 2011 3:06 PM
>> >> To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> >> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet
>> >>
>> >> There is also this:
>> >> http://act.credoaction.com/pages/ca_ag/?rc=fb_share4
>> >>
>> >> Wake up! Act up!
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Ian Livingston
>> >> <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> First, I offer up a little Patti Smith for the masses:
>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8C9U7pMvmc
>> >>>
>> >>> Then, I'll offer up that at least one of my young acquaintances is
>> >>> involved with Occupy California, an offspring, I guess of the Wall
>> >>> Street movement. Here's their facebook page:
>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/OccupyCalifornia Maybe there are
>> >>> other Occupy groups in your area. Don't just admire the splinter in
>> >>> the thumb, rub salt in behind it.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have hope with these under 30s. There are a number of wide-awake
>> >>> people among them. With the backing of a few of their elders, they are
>> >>> becoming more outspoken and bolder as time goes on. I laud and support
>> >>> them whole-heartedly, and I will soon be back in the world where I can
>> >>> be a part of the action, so I can put my mug in the line, too. The
>> >>> time for talk is nearly at an end. We have to act if we are going to
>> >>> get our government involved in the change that must happen if we are
>> >>> to regain (or establish) any dignity as a people. The Capitalist
>> >>> Revolution of the 18th Century has run its course and its impetus must
>> >>> be redirected. We can be a part of how that impetus gets directed. We
>> >>> are not too old to act. So shut up, print your banners, and hit the
>> >>> streets, and then speak up. Loudly.
>> >>>
>> >>> The protests of the 60s and 70s were organized to a point and then
>> >>> more people joined. The same has been true through the Arab Spring. It
>> >>> was a minority that showed up with full cognizance of the importance
>> >>> of being there, but without that minority, the majority would never
>> >>> have dared it.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> Did BofA pick the wrong week to raise the price of crack? So to
>> >>>> speak....
>> >>>>
>> >>>> @RebelCapitalist RebelCapitalist
>> >>>> As Movement Grows, Thousands In Boston Protest Against Bank Of
>> >>>> America’s
>> >>>> Greed http://j.mp/qvEPT8 #occupytogether
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> >>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>> >>> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>> >>> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>> >>> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> >> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>> >> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>> >> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>> >> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>> >
>
>



-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant