Are tyrants good for art?

[Joe Allonby]

I think if I were given a choice between seeing a good ballet or not
living under tyranny, I'd skip the dance recital.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Max Nemtsov <max.nemtsov at gmail.com> wrote:
> i don't intend to _knock_ them, and i realize that good art blooms in
> confrontation (but not necessarily)
> i rather doubt idealizing the role of tyrants
>
>
> On 13.08.2012 13:12, Joe Allonby wrote:
>>
>> Artists have to make a living too, even if it's not what they intended
>> from the get go.
>>
>> I'm sure that Profokiev would have been happier composing and
>> conducting symphonies instead of soundtracks for propaganda films.
>> Bulgakov worked as a stagehand when he wasn't writing novels that were
>> banned by his biggest fan Stalin. Or writing plays that were closed
>> after one performance.
>>
>> I wouldn't knock the Soviet artists too hard. They were struggling to
>> make art under an oppressive regime that sought to use them as
>> propaganda pawns.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Max Nemtsov <max.nemtsov at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> hm, a hectic mix
>>> and, this list covers at least 3 different tyrants, with different
>>> degrees of tightening screws on art (not to mention, several works from
>>> it are specimens of pre-ordered propaganda art). and, this is cinema
>>> which, according to the greatest moviegoer of all times, named
>>> Ulyanov-Lenin, was nothing better for the masses than circus, so of
>>> course it thrived under the Soviets, why shouldn't it. and it
>>> disproportionately veers towards one director
>>> try to take instead, something like a typical annual output of Soviet
>>> film studios of mid-seventies, and see how many gems you could find.
>>> then, let's talk art
>>> Mx
>>>
>>> jesus, i just adore people nostalgic for the soviet era, it's like the
>>> 60s. have you lived there?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12.08.2012 23:14, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Battleship Potemkin (1925)
>>>> Alexander Nevsky (1938)
>>>> The Cranes are Flying (1957)
>>>> Ivan's Childhood (1962)
>>>> Andrei Rublev (1966)
>>>> Stalker (1979)
>>>> Come and See (1985)
>>>>
>>>> And for all of its repressive structures in place, Iran has a great
>>>> cinema
>>>> movement.
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Aug 12, 2012 1:08 PM
>>>>> To: Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>, pynchon -l
>>>>> <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Are tyrants good for art?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oRbStmxvm4
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It's because traditional tyrants left a good deal of freedom in
>>>>>> society.
>>>>>> Ancient China wasn't anything like a modern democracy, but it produced
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> of the greatest art there's ever been, while Mao's China produced
>>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>> Tsarist Russia contained many kinds of discrimination and injustice,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the late 19th and early 20th Century it was in the vanguard of
>>>>>> literature,
>>>>>> painting, music and dance. The Soviet Union produced little that was
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> remotely comparable. The arts flourished in the empire of the
>>>>>> Habsburgs,
>>>>>> while Nazism produced Leni Riefenstahl's repugnant and much over-rated
>>>>>> Triumph of the Will. Whereas authoritarian regimes leave much of
>>>>>> society
>>>>>> alone, totalitarianism aims to control everything. Invariably, the
>>>>>> result is
>>>>>> a cultural desert."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Dave Monroe
>>>>>> <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Culture thrives on conflict and antagonism, not social harmony - a
>>>>>>> point made rather memorably by a certain Harry Lime, says philosopher
>>>>>>> John Gray.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19202527
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Gray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Gray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>