Are tyrants good for art?

[Max Nemtsov]

exactly. otherwise, poets should be obligatory starved to death, in 
order to produce good poetry


On 13.08.2012 13:28, Joe Allonby wrote:
> I think if I were given a choice between seeing a good ballet or not
> living under tyranny, I'd skip the dance recital.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Max Nemtsov <max.nemtsov at gmail.com> wrote:
>> i don't intend to _knock_ them, and i realize that good art blooms in
>> confrontation (but not necessarily)
>> i rather doubt idealizing the role of tyrants
>>
>>
>> On 13.08.2012 13:12, Joe Allonby wrote:
>>> Artists have to make a living too, even if it's not what they intended
>>> from the get go.
>>>
>>> I'm sure that Profokiev would have been happier composing and
>>> conducting symphonies instead of soundtracks for propaganda films.
>>> Bulgakov worked as a stagehand when he wasn't writing novels that were
>>> banned by his biggest fan Stalin. Or writing plays that were closed
>>> after one performance.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't knock the Soviet artists too hard. They were struggling to
>>> make art under an oppressive regime that sought to use them as
>>> propaganda pawns.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Max Nemtsov <max.nemtsov at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hm, a hectic mix
>>>> and, this list covers at least 3 different tyrants, with different
>>>> degrees of tightening screws on art (not to mention, several works from
>>>> it are specimens of pre-ordered propaganda art). and, this is cinema
>>>> which, according to the greatest moviegoer of all times, named
>>>> Ulyanov-Lenin, was nothing better for the masses than circus, so of
>>>> course it thrived under the Soviets, why shouldn't it. and it
>>>> disproportionately veers towards one director
>>>> try to take instead, something like a typical annual output of Soviet
>>>> film studios of mid-seventies, and see how many gems you could find.
>>>> then, let's talk art
>>>> Mx
>>>>
>>>> jesus, i just adore people nostalgic for the soviet era, it's like the
>>>> 60s. have you lived there?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12.08.2012 23:14, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>>>>> Battleship Potemkin (1925)
>>>>> Alexander Nevsky (1938)
>>>>> The Cranes are Flying (1957)
>>>>> Ivan's Childhood (1962)
>>>>> Andrei Rublev (1966)
>>>>> Stalker (1979)
>>>>> Come and See (1985)
>>>>>
>>>>> And for all of its repressive structures in place, Iran has a great
>>>>> cinema
>>>>> movement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laura
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Aug 12, 2012 1:08 PM
>>>>>> To: Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>, pynchon -l
>>>>>> <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Are tyrants good for art?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oRbStmxvm4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> "It's because traditional tyrants left a good deal of freedom in
>>>>>>> society.
>>>>>>> Ancient China wasn't anything like a modern democracy, but it produced
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> of the greatest art there's ever been, while Mao's China produced
>>>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>>> Tsarist Russia contained many kinds of discrimination and injustice,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the late 19th and early 20th Century it was in the vanguard of
>>>>>>> literature,
>>>>>>> painting, music and dance. The Soviet Union produced little that was
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> remotely comparable. The arts flourished in the empire of the
>>>>>>> Habsburgs,
>>>>>>> while Nazism produced Leni Riefenstahl's repugnant and much over-rated
>>>>>>> Triumph of the Will. Whereas authoritarian regimes leave much of
>>>>>>> society
>>>>>>> alone, totalitarianism aims to control everything. Invariably, the
>>>>>>> result is
>>>>>>> a cultural desert."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Dave Monroe
>>>>>>> <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Culture thrives on conflict and antagonism, not social harmony - a
>>>>>>>> point made rather memorably by a certain Harry Lime, says philosopher
>>>>>>>> John Gray.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19202527
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Gray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Gray
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>