Carbon Democracy: Political Power in the Age of Oil

[rich]

It was 50 million. we shouldn't plop a corporate/capitalist explanation for
Germany's expansionist foreign policy with post war American policy I
think. it had economic aspects sure but the eastern war with the Soviets
was above a beyond a racial war (to the Germans). None of America's
interventions postwar could be claimed as such (arguably the race war was
simmering at home)--think we can all agree it was lead by economic concerns
tinged with a political ideology of anti-communism that could never reach
the level or inspire such a thing as genocide. overpowering technology was
the devil working here--the US military when in doubt blew a lot shit up
and lots of people, too. it wasn't personal (and I say that in the most of
blackest comedic way)
I would argue that the territorial expansions into the Ukraine by the
Germans was part and parcel a result of the racist ideology of the Nazis;
it underpinned everything that happened and was the flame which ignited
such horrific atrocities

rich

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 1/6/2012 1:26 PM, rich wrote:
>
> Yes, I'm with you. I would just point out that on a more granular level
> there are differences between say Nazi imperialism and US forays on the
> world stage during the post-war. The latter lacked the ideological
> foundation for mass murder (though in many respects they were goosed by
> economic concerns and pressures) or if you will US foreign policy was
> politically-driven whereas the Nazis were mostly concerned with race.Of
> course the results were equally gruesome for millions
>
>
> The Germans were MOSTLY  concerned with territorial expansion, gaining
> "living space" or Lebensraum. And they weren't at the time interested in
> colonial acquisitions as other European nations earlier had been but rather
> in conquering lands immediately to the east where Germans could live.  This
> would require the removal of indigenous occupants. Racial and inferior
> peoples theories were useful in justifying these foreign policy goals. The
> internal policies entailing the removal of Jews and others I believe
> historians pretty much agree were secondary to the territorial expansion
> aims.
>
> But in the end, 20 or was it 50 million people were dead.
>
> P
>
>
>
> rich
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> I've always thought he was talking about both , that summoning the image
>> of living in dread of the rockets  mapped naturally onto American imperial
>> warfare and the use of aerial bombardment in Vietnam. These can all be seen
>> as surrogate resource wars by the cartels.   The spirit behind it moves
>> around, Jews become Viet peasants, Central Americans, Chechens, Muslims,
>> pretty Thai 12 year olds. Always the same lies, the same profits accrueing
>> to the informed investors and  industrialists. Oil being the ultimate in
>> fungible liquidity, an erasure of the past to control the future.
>> On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:50 PM, rich wrote:
>>
>> > a bit but you do learn abit of things you hadnt known if not abiding by
>> his conclusions. i think the fault may lay in the fact that Hollander's
>> critique seems to work more when  talking about post-war America/Vietnam
>> and not specifically with the WW2 generation. at least I read GR that way;
>> others may differ
>> >
>> > rich
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>> > On 1/5/2012 11:05 AM, rich wrote:
>> >> is this the conventional wisdom re: GR. I'm not so sure anymore
>> myself. It doesnt factor in the motivating ideology that allows one small
>> section of humans to place another larger section of humans into gas
>> chambers or shoot women and children into hastily dug ditches. men plotting
>> in small rooms did this and it most definitely had a name
>> >>
>> >> I like the literary aspects that Mr. Hollander instigates; as history
>> though it falls short
>> >
>> > Hollander makes Pynchon quite nutty sounding.
>> >
>> > P
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> the carbon democracy book does sound very interesting. thanks for
>> that, dave
>> >>
>> >> rich
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Dave Monroe <
>> against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Dave Monroe <
>> against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote
>> >> :
>> >> > Carbon Democracy: Political Power in the Age of Oil
>> >> > by Timothy Mitchell
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.versobooks.com/books/1020-carbon-democracy
>> >>
>> >> For Pynchon, World War II was a monstrous holocaust, a cataclysm of 40
>> >> million souls, resulting from a competition among technologies. The
>> >> old dynasty, the J. P. Morgan dynasty, was built on the technologies
>> >> of coal, steel, and railroads; the newer Rockefeller dynasty on the
>> >> technologies of oil (petrochemicals, plastics), aluminum, and
>> >> aircraft. Pynchon says that World War II was a corporate war
>> >> reflecting those technologies, that for many their “first loyalty,
>> >> legal and moral, is to the estate [corporation] she represents. Not to
>> >> our boys in uniform [the nation-state], however gallant, whenever they
>> >> died” ( Lot 49, 53).
>> >>
>> >> In Gravity’s Rainbow, Pynchon has to bring up the long ago
>> >> relationship between Standard Oil and the I.G. Farbenindustrie.
>> >> Standard Oil and I.G. Farben did arrange to share world markets in
>> >> 1936, and as an act of good faith, they exchanged some 2,000 patents
>> >> just prior to World War II. Their multinational character forced them
>> >> to make arrangements for the contingencies of war.
>> >>
>> >> When World War II erupted, their loyalties were so strongly with each
>> >> other that the US government had to bring legal action against both
>> >> the Standard Oil Co. (NJ) and I.G. Farbenindustrie (see Pynchon’s
>> >> list, Rainbow 538) for illegal monopolistic practices involving
>> >> gasoline, toluene, and synthetic rubber patents. The US government
>> >> seized many of these patents ultimately. Standard Oil, it seems, also
>> >> gave Farben the technology, personnel and equipment for the production
>> >> of tetraethyl lead, without which there would have been no high octane
>> >> aircraft fuel, no luftwaffe, and no war. Then Sen. Harry S. Truman,
>> >> the investigating committee’s chairman, viewed the relationship
>> >> between these multinational corporations as treasonable.
>> >>
>> >> By referring to this multinational liaison as “the century’s master
>> >> cabal,” Pynchon is suggesting more than corporate cooperation. He is
>> >> suggesting that World War II was part of the “Plot Which Has No Name,”
>> >> the concerted effort by the new dynasty to bring down the old
>> >> dynasty....
>> >>
>> >> [...]
>> >>
>> >> http://www.ottosell.de/pynchon/inferno.htm
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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