Back to AtD Cyprian again

[Ian Livingston]

Eh? Yeah. Makes sense. I was forgetting the setting of the scene. Having
just unpacked my Burke and been drawn into reading a few paragraphs, I
might have thought to apply his careful system here. Which, I think, would
support this reading. Even so, I'd have to wonder about the larger
resonances of the scene as apostrophe. Just because it's Pynchon and he
does that sort of thing now and then. Well, and because I like to see such.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

> First I decided to ask myself where Cyprian was? Although he is speaking
> of The Balkan Peninsula here, he is talking to Ratty
> and he may still be in Ys-les Bain, yes? "Hidden near the foothills of the
> Pyrenees", which, double-checking a map shows that WW 1 begins (and is
> largely fought) East of there. Invasion of Bosnia starts it and
> more........
>
>   *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
> Sorta combining the two, given Cyprian's fate and all: if the Communist
> rebellion can be thought of as atheistic (following Feuerbach, as Marx
> does, one might call the projected deity atheistic), could that be that
> which is to feared by such as Cyprian? Is it his fate to station himself at
> the last outpost of devotion to the mystery?
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  First para sez well stuff on my mind....
>
> But, reading further after "relaxing into his fate' shows equanimity, I
> think....acceptance of getting older, of no longer desiring the young,
> etc....
>
>   *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 4:28 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
>  I remember being a little inclined to caution on reading this. Not
> always one of my more prominent characteristics. What IS in the east? The
> Great War in Europe was not an Eastern thing, really, as I understand it,
> but the mortal spasm of the Empire succumbing to the triumph of capitalism,
> and all very European from start to finish (counting the US as essentially
> European on another continent, and an ally of the European capitalist
> class.) The war in the East was different. That was two great empires in
> extremis struggling for renewed footing, room to expand, and all that fun
> stuff. The only thing "building" in the east was the communist rebellion in
> Russia.
>
> Equanimity is central to Buddhism. Is Cyprian's relaxation into fate an
> expression of equanimity, or is it fatalistic? The two can be very
> different. Hm. How close am I re-reading AtD?
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  p. 939 "only some form of madness would take anyone east, right now.
> into the jaws
> of what's almost certainly on the move out there."
> What is he alluding to? the Repressed returning? War?, the Building-up?
> The Force of They?
>
> Lower down on 939:
> "Cyprian had begun to 'relax into his fate' "
> What means this? Nietzsche is one who is famous for the concept of
> accepting--loving, embracing-- one's fate. Amor Fati.
> Nabokov is another, along with some ancient Greek dramatists and
> This bracketed phrase in AtD does not show up except in Pynchon (and one
> unknown writer)'s allusion.
> Does Pynchon even give Nietzsche's concept a laid-back framing? Wiki calls
> Cyprian's response Buddhist.
>
> Has Cyprian gone beyond (society's) good and evil Nietzsche-like. Is that
> where Buddhism lies?
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>


-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
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