Back to AtD Cyprian again
Paul Mackin
mackin.paul at verizon.net
Sun Jul 22 10:46:12 CDT 2012
On 7/22/2012 10:31 AM, Ian Livingston wrote:
> Eh? Yeah. Makes sense. I was forgetting the setting of the scene.
> Having just unpacked my Burke and been drawn into reading a few
> paragraphs, I might have thought to apply his careful system here.
> Which, I think, would support this reading. Even so, I'd have to
> wonder about the larger resonances of the scene as apostrophe. Just
> because it's Pynchon and he does that sort of thing now and then.
> Well, and because I like to see such.
Yes and east of there is the Balkans, to which Cyprian vowed never to
return. I'm assuming this isn't a first reading for anyone, but if is
skip down to avoid a possible spoiler
The seemingly-inseparable four DO return, and Cyprian decides to stay on
as a nun at the Covent in Thrace. I wondered a second if his decision
was connected to his resignation to the fact that he was loosing his
sexual attractiveness, but quickly decided there was little if any
connection.
P
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com
> <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> First I decided to ask myself where Cyprian was? Although he is
> speaking of The Balkan Peninsula here, he is talking to Ratty
> and he may still be in Ys-les Bain, yes? "Hidden near the
> foothills of the Pyrenees", which, double-checking a map shows
> that WW 1 begins (and is largely fought) East of there. Invasion
> of Bosnia starts it and more........
>
> *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com
> <mailto:igrlivingston at gmail.com>>
> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>>
> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 6:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
> Sorta combining the two, given Cyprian's fate and all: if the
> Communist rebellion can be thought of as atheistic (following
> Feuerbach, as Marx does, one might call the projected deity
> atheistic), could that be that which is to feared by such as
> Cyprian? Is it his fate to station himself at the last outpost of
> devotion to the mystery?
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com
> <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> First para sez well stuff on my mind....
> But, reading further after "relaxing into his fate' shows
> equanimity, I think....acceptance of getting older, of no
> longer desiring the young, etc....
>
> *From:* Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com
> <mailto:igrlivingston at gmail.com>>
> *To:* Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com
> <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>>
> *Cc:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org
> <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 4:28 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD Cyprian again
>
> I remember being a little inclined to caution on reading this.
> Not always one of my more prominent characteristics. What IS
> in the east? The Great War in Europe was not an Eastern thing,
> really, as I understand it, but the mortal spasm of the Empire
> succumbing to the triumph of capitalism, and all very European
> from start to finish (counting the US as essentially European
> on another continent, and an ally of the European capitalist
> class.) The war in the East was different. That was two great
> empires in extremis struggling for renewed footing, room to
> expand, and all that fun stuff. The only thing "building" in
> the east was the communist rebellion in Russia.
>
> Equanimity is central to Buddhism. Is Cyprian's relaxation
> into fate an expression of equanimity, or is it fatalistic?
> The two can be very different. Hm. How close am I re-reading AtD?
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Mark Kohut
> <markekohut at yahoo.com <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> p. 939 "only some form of madness would take anyone east,
> right now. into the jaws
> of what's almost certainly on the move out there."
> What is he alluding to? the Repressed returning? War?, the
> Building-up? The Force of They?
> Lower down on 939:
> "Cyprian had begun to 'relax into his fate' "
> What means this? Nietzsche is one who is famous for the
> concept of accepting--loving, embracing-- one's fate. Amor
> Fati.
> Nabokov is another, along with some ancient Greek
> dramatists and
> This bracketed phrase in AtD does not show up except in
> Pynchon (and one unknown writer)'s allusion.
> Does Pynchon even give Nietzsche's concept a laid-back
> framing? Wiki calls Cyprian's response Buddhist.
> Has Cyprian gone beyond (society's) good and evil
> Nietzsche-like. Is that where Buddhism lies?
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I excuse for prejudice; and I feel
> for all creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn
> that even the trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that
> we are all fragments of darkness groping for the sun. I know
> no more about the ultimates than the simplest urchin in the
> streets." -- Will Durant
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I excuse for prejudice; and I feel for
> all creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that
> even the trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are
> all fragments of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more
> about the ultimates than the simplest urchin in the streets." --
> Will Durant
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
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