TP or NP? Trial balloon goes up

[Alex Colter]

I intended my question to be a genuine one and not the blow to the gut that
it seems to have become... so please forgive me.

Thank you for trying to explain it to me, I was simply disoriented by the
sudden Leap from Maxwell to three thousand years prior with Sumerian Legend
or the Avebury Stones...
I suppose you are referring to a system of Mathematics that was lost? A
pure and Ancient sort of Mathesis..?
There is actually some interesting speculation that one of the most
important things we lost with the Library of Alexandria was just such a
form of Ancient Mathematics relating to Architecture, the Pantheon in Rome
being a brilliant example, for we still do not know exactly how they
calculated it's giant Dome, if I recall correctly...

As for the Ear, it was Mason who stumbled upon it while at St. Helena,  &
it is a very real, pickled ear,  not overly large, but appearing to Hear
(as Mr. Mournival, her Devotee, explains)  (see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins%27_Ear)

I think this is a good l example of the curious and wonderful juxtaposition
between "Rational" & "Irrational" to be found throughout M&D...

On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Allow me to try to further connect you into my connections with the
> discussion of Pynchon and math and invention.
>
> In Mason and Dixon.  There is a part where Dixon goes into a museum and
> talks into a very large ear.  This we can all agree is an invention of
> Pynchon's.  I might at this point link to a nifty picture of an ear here,
> to refresh mine and everybody's about the workings and names in the ear.
>  But let's forget about that spirally thing, very psychedelic, and I'm sure
> a bigtime stoner like you Alex knows the psychedelic experience, when you
> close your eyes the world goes *spirally.  *And those spirals are
> mathematical of course, they're Fibonacci golden ratios...
> *
> *
> Mason speaks into the ear.  And then a few pages later Dixon tells him he
> heard what Mason said.  Which, ironically, you actually said that I'll find
> out later maybe Dixon really did in fact hear it, which was from afar, and
> physically impossible.
>
> Unless higher dimensions are involved...
>
> Are you *listening*...?
>
> (And don't ask me to go back and find the tetrahedral/hexagonal geometries
> in those passages like you find in the Sahara and the top of Saturn, I'm
> finished explaining myself for today, it's exhausting!  Thanks for asking
> though.)
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So you don't have a problem now.  Now you have an obstruction.  And your
>> obstruction is your not understanding how what I said is connected to a
>> certain discussion of Pynchon at hand.
>>
>> And you want me to bring you to understand the connections between what I
>> said and what you believe were the relevant discussion of Pynchon at hand.
>>
>> I have already done that.  Shall I try again?  Fine.
>>
>> For clarity, what was the discussion at hand?  I see Mr.Kohut's first
>> post was about math in Pynchon.  But it doesn't say anything about any
>> "invention" of Pynchon's.  And the first post that I responded to in this
>> thread had to do with Maxwell, with no mention of any "inventions".
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I never once mentioned Christ, when I say "his invention" I mean
>>> Pynchon's... nor did I bring up the topic of Hebrew Literature, but simply
>>> went along with your thought-process because I thought it was actually
>>> going somewhere relevant to the discussion (being Pynchon)...?
>>>
>>> It is not so much a problem as it is an obstruction to the lively Topic
>>> at hand...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What problem?  What are you talking about, man.  Is it a problem you
>>>> are having with something?
>>>>
>>>> What is your problem?  You asked me what connections I'm drawing
>>>> between Pynchon and Jesus's invention.  I said none.
>>>>
>>>> How is that a problem for you?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "I'm not drawing any connections between Pynchon and his invention."
>>>>>
>>>>> Therein, dear Madeleine, lies the problem...?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So you agree with me that Titus Flavius and his circle drew upon
>>>>>> Hebraic Texts to invent Jesus and write the Gospels.  I thought sure you'd
>>>>>> disagreed with me there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not drawing any connections between Pynchon and his invention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Without a doubt there exist real transference between the two, (and
>>>>>>> one may add a later Babylonian influence in the Post-Exile Books of Daniel
>>>>>>> and Enoch) but it seems that the ancient Hebrews did their very best to
>>>>>>> consciously subsume the Canaanite and Sumerian gods under one God, YHWH,
>>>>>>> thus creating something quite different... Call it "anxiety of
>>>>>>> influence"... the Hebrews, writing during the time of Solomon (who was
>>>>>>> reprimanded by YHWH for building temples to the diverse gods of his wives),
>>>>>>> drew upon the various Literature at their disposal to create a uniquely
>>>>>>> Hebraic Text....
>>>>>>> Perhaps we are nearing the relevance to this discussion... but can
>>>>>>> you help me draw the connection to P. and his invention?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How have I come to see the relevance here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What a wonderful question, Alex, thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "...for He hath weighed the world in the balance..."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ever wonder how the Sumerians, Alex, and the people of Avebury,
>>>>>>>> when you really look at it, they knew the actual correct physical weight of
>>>>>>>> the world?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ever thought about how so much of the Old Testament is based on
>>>>>>>> Sumerian legends?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Alex Colter <
>>>>>>>> recoignishon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Funny, how easily we Wander off-topic... or else neglect to
>>>>>>>>> properly state how we came upon a current thought-process...
>>>>>>>>> Interesting, Madeleine, but how have you come to see the relevance
>>>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>>>>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I love James Clerk Maxwell!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was just noticing this not an hour ago:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://atlasobscura.com/place/richat-structure
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The explanations are within the parameters of acceptable
>>>>>>>>>> indoctrinated scientific discussion.  Vulcano! etc.  But I was wondering if
>>>>>>>>>> anybody has noticed how closely it resembles these somewhat recent photos:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-034
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/cassini20091209.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maxwell, following Reimann, venturing into higher dimensions with
>>>>>>>>>> his quaternions, hyperspatial aether, I wonder if he worked out the
>>>>>>>>>> temperatures around portals such as these?:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/pia12867.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All surely foreseen by that great mystic drunk from the northern
>>>>>>>>>> territories, Sir Hamilton..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Monte Davis <
>>>>>>>>>> montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well said. Of course, as one who switched  majors from physical
>>>>>>>>>>> chemistry to comparative literature… and then a science writer who kept
>>>>>>>>>>> finding mythical narratives deeply embedded in the aseptic official version
>>>>>>>>>>> of scientific progress (
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.science20.com/monte_davis/field_james_clerk_maxwell-78111)... I
>>>>>>>>>>> *would* say that, wouldn’t I?****
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Alex Colter [mailto:recoignishon at gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Monte Davis
>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* alice wellintown; pynchon -l
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: TP or NP? Trial balloon goes up****
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not so sure that Mathematics is being satirized in AtD, I
>>>>>>>>>>> think perhaps P. has, since he was a youngun, possessed a very real sort of
>>>>>>>>>>> tension between a Mathematical or Thermodynamic World-View, and a more
>>>>>>>>>>> romantic Byron-esque World-View... the anxiety between the two and the
>>>>>>>>>>> various combats his Psyche engages produce a satirized portrait of Each
>>>>>>>>>>> Hemisphere, Literary and Scientific... our P. is both Timothy Tox with his
>>>>>>>>>>> Golem & Vaucanson with his Duck, both are, more often than not, invisible.
>>>>>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Monte Davis <
>>>>>>>>>>> montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:****
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's remarkably silly even for you.****
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>> owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of alice wellintown
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:56 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: pynchon -l
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: TP or NP? Trial balloon goes up
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> math is P novels is like physics in the big bang theory tv show.
>>>>>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20120731/dfd2eacc/attachment.html>