TP or NP? Trial balloon goes up

Tue Jul 31 14:15:02 CDT 2012

Who ever retires when they first do?  Everybody always comes back for one
more run at the gold (punning, Alex, not only the Olympics, which I'll get
more to in a minute, but Sumerian golden rods).

Eratosthanes walked out of the Alexandria library, having received a new
scroll that said something about the Sun being straight up at summer
solstice.  Not at Alexandria!  Off by *seven* degrees....ho! ho!  Seven!

But that's not interesting.  Interesting is that from that inspiration
Eratosthanes went on to figure the Earth was a sphere and that its
circumference is 130 million Olympian feet.  Which was off by a mere 400k.

Not bad, considering he didn't even realize his Olympian foot was devised
by an unknown source a few thousand years back which gave the Sumerians and
the men of Avebury their exact and everlasting measures, from which they
weighed the weight of the world.

And this would get us right exactly* *back to where we started.  Now try
answering your initial question yourself again, see if I've helped at all.
 If not we may recur again and again...

On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com> wrote:

> I intended my question to be a genuine one and not the blow to the gut
> that it seems to have become... so please forgive me.
>
> Thank you for trying to explain it to me, I was simply disoriented by the
> sudden Leap from Maxwell to three thousand years prior with Sumerian Legend
> or the Avebury Stones...
> I suppose you are referring to a system of Mathematics that was lost? A
> pure and Ancient sort of Mathesis..?
> There is actually some interesting speculation that one of the most
> important things we lost with the Library of Alexandria was just such a
> form of Ancient Mathematics relating to Architecture, the Pantheon in Rome
> being a brilliant example, for we still do not know exactly how they
> calculated it's giant Dome, if I recall correctly...
>
> As for the Ear, it was Mason who stumbled upon it while at St. Helena,  &
> it is a very real, pickled ear,  not overly large, but appearing to Hear
> (as Mr. Mournival, her Devotee, explains)  (see:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins%27_Ear)
>
> I think this is a good l example of the curious and wonderful
> juxtaposition between "Rational" & "Irrational" to be found throughout
> M&D...
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Allow me to try to further connect you into my connections with the
>> discussion of Pynchon and math and invention.
>>
>> In Mason and Dixon.  There is a part where Dixon goes into a museum and
>> talks into a very large ear.  This we can all agree is an invention of
>> Pynchon's.  I might at this point link to a nifty picture of an ear here,
>> to refresh mine and everybody's about the workings and names in the ear.
>>  But let's forget about that spirally thing, very psychedelic, and I'm sure
>> a bigtime stoner like you Alex knows the psychedelic experience, when you
>> close your eyes the world goes *spirally.  *And those spirals are
>> mathematical of course, they're Fibonacci golden ratios...
>> *
>> *
>> Mason speaks into the ear.  And then a few pages later Dixon tells him he
>> heard what Mason said.  Which, ironically, you actually said that I'll find
>> out later maybe Dixon really did in fact hear it, which was from afar, and
>> physically impossible.
>>
>> Unless higher dimensions are involved...
>>
>> Are you *listening*...?
>>
>> (And don't ask me to go back and find the tetrahedral/hexagonal
>> geometries in those passages like you find in the Sahara and the top of
>> Saturn, I'm finished explaining myself for today, it's exhausting!  Thanks
>> for asking though.)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So you don't have a problem now.  Now you have an obstruction.  And your
>>> obstruction is your not understanding how what I said is connected to a
>>> certain discussion of Pynchon at hand.
>>>
>>> And you want me to bring you to understand the connections between what
>>> I said and what you believe were the relevant discussion of Pynchon at hand.
>>>
>>> I have already done that.  Shall I try again?  Fine.
>>>
>>> For clarity, what was the discussion at hand?  I see Mr.Kohut's first
>>> post was about math in Pynchon.  But it doesn't say anything about any
>>> "invention" of Pynchon's.  And the first post that I responded to in this
>>> thread had to do with Maxwell, with no mention of any "inventions".
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I never once mentioned Christ, when I say "his invention" I mean
>>>> Pynchon's... nor did I bring up the topic of Hebrew Literature, but simply
>>>> went along with your thought-process because I thought it was actually
>>>> going somewhere relevant to the discussion (being Pynchon)...?
>>>>
>>>> It is not so much a problem as it is an obstruction to the lively Topic
>>>> at hand...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What problem?  What are you talking about, man.  Is it a problem you
>>>>> are having with something?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is your problem?  You asked me what connections I'm drawing
>>>>> between Pynchon and Jesus's invention.  I said none.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is that a problem for you?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Alex Colter <recoignishon at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "I'm not drawing any connections between Pynchon and his invention."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therein, dear Madeleine, lies the problem...?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you agree with me that Titus Flavius and his circle drew upon
>>>>>>> Hebraic Texts to invent Jesus and write the Gospels.  I thought sure you'd
>>>>>>> disagreed with me there?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not drawing any connections between Pynchon and his invention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Alex Colter <
>>>>>>> recoignishon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Without a doubt there exist real transference between the two, (and
>>>>>>>> one may add a later Babylonian influence in the Post-Exile Books of Daniel
>>>>>>>> and Enoch) but it seems that the ancient Hebrews did their very best to
>>>>>>>> consciously subsume the Canaanite and Sumerian gods under one God, YHWH,
>>>>>>>> thus creating something quite different... Call it "anxiety of
>>>>>>>> influence"... the Hebrews, writing during the time of Solomon (who was
>>>>>>>> reprimanded by YHWH for building temples to the diverse gods of his wives),
>>>>>>>> drew upon the various Literature at their disposal to create a uniquely
>>>>>>>> Hebraic Text....
>>>>>>>> Perhaps we are nearing the relevance to this discussion... but can
>>>>>>>> you help me draw the connection to P. and his invention?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>>>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How have I come to see the relevance here?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What a wonderful question, Alex, thank you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "...for He hath weighed the world in the balance..."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ever wonder how the Sumerians, Alex, and the people of Avebury,
>>>>>>>>> when you really look at it, they knew the actual correct physical weight of
>>>>>>>>> the world?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ever thought about how so much of the Old Testament is based on
>>>>>>>>> Sumerian legends?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Alex Colter <
>>>>>>>>> recoignishon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Funny, how easily we Wander off-topic... or else neglect to
>>>>>>>>>> properly state how we came upon a current thought-process...
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting, Madeleine, but how have you come to see the
>>>>>>>>>> relevance here?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Madeleine Maudlin <
>>>>>>>>>> madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I love James Clerk Maxwell!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was just noticing this not an hour ago:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://atlasobscura.com/place/richat-structure
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The explanations are within the parameters of acceptable
>>>>>>>>>>> indoctrinated scientific discussion.  Vulcano! etc.  But I was wondering if
>>>>>>>>>>> anybody has noticed how closely it resembles these somewhat recent photos:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-034
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/cassini20091209.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maxwell, following Reimann, venturing into higher dimensions
>>>>>>>>>>> with his quaternions, hyperspatial aether, I wonder if he worked out the
>>>>>>>>>>> temperatures around portals such as these?:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/pia12867.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All surely foreseen by that great mystic drunk from the northern
>>>>>>>>>>> territories, Sir Hamilton..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Monte Davis <
>>>>>>>>>>> montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well said. Of course, as one who switched  majors from physical
>>>>>>>>>>>> chemistry to comparative literature… and then a science writer who kept
>>>>>>>>>>>> finding mythical narratives deeply embedded in the aseptic official version
>>>>>>>>>>>> of scientific progress (
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.science20.com/monte_davis/field_james_clerk_maxwell-78111)... I
>>>>>>>>>>>> *would* say that, wouldn’t I?****
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Alex Colter [mailto:recoignishon at gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Monte Davis
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* alice wellintown; pynchon -l
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: TP or NP? Trial balloon goes up****
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not so sure that Mathematics is being satirized in AtD, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think perhaps P. has, since he was a youngun, possessed a very real sort of
>>>>>>>>>>>> tension between a Mathematical or Thermodynamic World-View, and a more
>>>>>>>>>>>> romantic Byron-esque World-View... the anxiety between the two and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> various combats his Psyche engages produce a satirized portrait of Each
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hemisphere, Literary and Scientific... our P. is both Timothy Tox with his
>>>>>>>>>>>> Golem & Vaucanson with his Duck, both are, more often than not, invisible.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Monte Davis <
>>>>>>>>>>>> montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:****
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's remarkably silly even for you.****
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of alice wellintown
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:56 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: pynchon -l
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: TP or NP? Trial balloon goes up
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> math is P novels is like physics in the big bang theory tv show.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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