Pynchon, books and readers

Wed Jun 20 00:32:13 CDT 2012

If we strip the quoted argument down to its bare essentials, you can at
least see how he got there, though I would strongly disagree with his
parenthetical comment. I read the quote as thinking along these lines: For
a given population, we can easily approximate the number of people who
would buy the book  (Drake's equation, anyone?). Each of those factors
("complex, rebarbative and obscene") is going to reduce TRP's reading
public. G's R is all this plus more, which (using his schema) leads
necessarily to unpopularity.

The problem with this is that it's "not even wrong". When you only consider
"metrics" such as popularity, you miss the awesome beauty of complexity.
Worse, it produces all-that's-necessary-to-survive "TV dinner" literature.
Of course, that's not to say that all that's popular is bad. But popularity
says nothing at all about the thing in question, when a population is very
large and very diverse. My point is that metrics coupled to averages are
often not useful.

As a digression, I chanced upon a surprisingly simple illustration of the
pitfalls of oversimplification the other day. Consider a thought
experiment: which contains fewer calories, a given slice of bread, or
toast? Don't look it up, just think it through. What's the answer? (c.f.
the climate debate)

As to whether G's R is SF, I think of the Borges story "Pierre Menard,
Author of the Quixote". Is G's R science fiction? Depends who's around to
hear you say it.

Prashant

On 20 June 2012 00:01, Matthew Cissell <macissell at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hey P-listers
>
> Forgive me if this has come up before. Are many of you familiar with "The
> History of Science Fiction" by Adam Roberts? Its one of the books I'm
> chipping away at. In chapter 13, Prose Science Fiction 1970's - 1990's, he
> gets around to TP. First, he writes that GR, "has a plausible claim to be
> the greatest SF novel of the 1970's." Granted, Roberts does have a very
> wide definition of SF, but how many of you would call it SF?
>
> Second, and this is where he really got my attention, he writes of GR that
> "it is too long, too complex, rebarbative and obscene ever to have enjoyed
> popular success (that it is still in print today is almost cetainly because
> universities require their students to buy it)."
>
> The last bit is so speculative it hurts. Does he have any numbers about
> book sales or university courses? This is the kind of unfounded claim that
> I address in my ongoing work. I think one would find that CoL49 is more
> often included in sylabi at universities.
>
> Mark, your mail is part of the angle missing from my field of vision. When
> will you provide a downloadable version of your knowledge and experience
> related to publishing?
>
> ciao
> mc otis
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> To: Prashant Kumar <p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au>
> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>
>
> In filling in all around Pynchon, this would be an interesting exercise,
> getting and using ALL the facts and educated guesses
> one could get........I kinda wish I had time.........
>
> But, short answers to provide some framework.....Writers get
> "advances"--an upfront loan paid back by royalty deductions later---
> upon which to live while they write their books. TRP had to get these, and
> especially of some liveable-on size after Crying of Lot 49..
> We know by hearsay that he wrote the story that became Lot 49 because he
> 'needed' money, so royalties from V. (and any initial advance
> for GR--if there was one) might have entropied his worklife. (is this a
> psychological 'objective correlative" for his early concern with entropy?
> One might also remember how he was said to be always running in Positively
> Fourth Street...'fearing time was running out"? )
>
> Anyway, he broke through into, perhaps, enough sales to live on when Lot
> 49 was published in paperback. He went wide. Lot 49 was
> many readers' intro into his work and soon enough the Academy was
> assigning it so sales continued and grew.
>
> Then GR was a legitimate NYTimes bestseller.....(minimum 50,00 sold, very
> minimum....surely over 100, 000, 200,000 then....and
> earlier ones picked up again.....)
>
> And he got grants......a macArthur  when, 80s sometime)...a Guggenheim
> earlier?........
>
> Bigger advances for later works, I'm sure...(aspect of book accounting not
> much known: an author can sometimes NOT sell enoough copies
> to earn the royalties that pay back the amount they were advanced YET.....
>
> the publishing company still can make nice money on the sales after
> deducting losses for unclaimed advances.....(work it out sometime w
> made-up amounts....)
>
> And, with Pynchon, unlike any flash in pan, literary or purely commercialm
> he has always been in print so is always earn ing some royalties...
>
> i would essay this too-quick guess.....Today, 2012.....TRP sells maybe
> 5,000 paperback copies of all his books except GR and Lot 49....
> (and, yes, that is a reductive generlaized number and I'll bet some
> plisters might want to speculate on the varying ongoing sales of the
> various novels)
> I'd say 10,000 GR a year....and over 20,000 Lot 49 a year........
>
> so, do some math....
>
> And flame me for hasty stupidities......
>
> From: Prashant Kumar <p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au>
> To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Tyler Wilson <tbsqrd at hotmail.com>; P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>; "
> against.the.dave at gmail.com" <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>
>
> Stupid follow up question (it was me who asked the original): how does
> that translate into average yearly income?
>
>
> 'cos if we imagine (entirely for argument) that TRP gets 15% on books at
> $30 ea. and 100,000 (I have no idea whether this is a realistic figure)
> sales for the lifetime of a book, say 20 years, then that's a grad
> student's stipend of $22,500 p.a.
>
> On 16 June 2012 04:30, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know 'nothin, Tyler, but if I have time i may try to get some
> answers...
> >
> >but your post remeinded me that I wanted to answer the post of whoever
> asked
> >what a writer like Pynchon earns.........
> >
> >And the answer for most writers' printed books is 8 to 15% royaltes--from
> list price---per sale.
> >A writer loses no royalties when one buys new from amazon, and
> such.....(some exception to that
> >if the publisher has terms regarding lower roylaties if they have to sell
> at standard wholesale (and higher--what are called 'special sales") prices.)
> >
> >There are often bonueses for hitting bestsller lists---almost always the
> NYT...
> >
> >TRP surely had contracts at 15% after GR....earlier ones could have been
> lower--10--12.5%
> >but have surely been renegotiated since........
> >
> >Writers typically get 50% of all
> subrights deals.........paperback license, movie rights, Czech editions,
> etc.)
> >
> >One aspect of p's ebook deal that some in the industry wonder about is
> Why/How did penguin get all of them?
> >Deals?...why din't they--harper, no slouches---fight to keep the ones
> they 'own"?
> >
> >Ms. Jackson and Thomas obviously wanted Penguin for all..........
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Tyler Wilson <tbsqrd at hotmail.com>
> >To: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >Cc: against.the.dave at gmail.com
> >Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 12:18 PM
> >Subject: RE: Pynchon eBook Trailer
> >
> >
> >
> >Any of you folks know anything about--or seen before--the artwork in P's
> eBook trailer representing Slow Learner?: the bird, the train, the
> pyramid... I have never seen those graphics, and it seems I would have by
> now, my not-quite-healthy interest long in the running. I've a distant
> recollection of reading that he did not at all care for the cover art of the
> Little Brown first edition. (Can anyone confirm this?) So perhaps these
> graphics were created for the trailer instead?
> >Can anyone school me?
> >With all my gratitude,--T
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: against.the.dave at gmail.com
> >> Date: Wed, 3  Jun 012  2::5::8  -500<
> >> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
> >> To: scuffling at gmail.com
> >> CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 3,, 012  at ::7  AM, Henry M <scuffling at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> http://greg.org/archive/012//6//2//thomas_pynchons_e-book_trailer.html
> >> > greg.org: the making of: Thomas Pynchon's e-Book Trailer
> >> > By greg
> >> > Thomas Pynchon's e-Book Trailer. Four words that I, for one, ever
> expected
> >> > to type in this sequence, but here we are. After Long Resistance,
> >> > Pynchon Allows Novels to Be Sold as E-Books [nyt] Thomas Pynchon on
> >> > Kindle someday,
> >> > but not yet ..
> >>
> >> Thomas Pynchon - The Complete Collection - eBooks
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNQSSEEBGA
> >
>
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