Pynchon, books and readers

Wed Jun 20 00:36:46 CDT 2012

Oh and I third the expression of interest in Matthew's work.

On 20 June 2012 15:32, Prashant Kumar <siva.prashant.kumar at gmail.com> wrote:

> If we strip the quoted argument down to its bare essentials, you can at
> least see how he got there, though I would strongly disagree with his
> parenthetical comment. I read the quote as thinking along these lines: For
> a given population, we can easily approximate the number of people who
> would buy the book  (Drake's equation, anyone?). Each of those factors
> ("complex, rebarbative and obscene") is going to reduce TRP's reading
> public. G's R is all this plus more, which (using his schema) leads
> necessarily to unpopularity.
>
> The problem with this is that it's "not even wrong". When you only
> consider "metrics" such as popularity, you miss the awesome beauty of
> complexity. Worse, it produces all-that's-necessary-to-survive "TV dinner"
> literature. Of course, that's not to say that all that's popular is bad.
> But popularity says nothing at all about the thing in question, when a
> population is very large and very diverse. My point is that metrics coupled
> to averages are often not useful.
>
> As a digression, I chanced upon a surprisingly simple illustration of the
> pitfalls of oversimplification the other day. Consider a thought
> experiment: which contains fewer calories, a given slice of bread, or
> toast? Don't look it up, just think it through. What's the answer? (c.f.
> the climate debate)
>
> As to whether G's R is SF, I think of the Borges story "Pierre Menard,
> Author of the Quixote". Is G's R science fiction? Depends who's around to
> hear you say it.
>
> Prashant
>
>
>
> On 20 June 2012 00:01, Matthew Cissell <macissell at yahoo.es> wrote:
>
>> Hey P-listers
>>
>> Forgive me if this has come up before. Are many of you familiar with "The
>> History of Science Fiction" by Adam Roberts? Its one of the books I'm
>> chipping away at. In chapter 13, Prose Science Fiction 1970's - 1990's, he
>> gets around to TP. First, he writes that GR, "has a plausible claim to be
>> the greatest SF novel of the 1970's." Granted, Roberts does have a very
>> wide definition of SF, but how many of you would call it SF?
>>
>> Second, and this is where he really got my attention, he writes of GR
>> that "it is too long, too complex, rebarbative and obscene ever to have
>> enjoyed popular success (that it is still in print today is almost cetainly
>> because universities require their students to buy it)."
>>
>> The last bit is so speculative it hurts. Does he have any numbers about
>> book sales or university courses? This is the kind of unfounded claim that
>> I address in my ongoing work. I think one would find that CoL49 is more
>> often included in sylabi at universities.
>>
>> Mark, your mail is part of the angle missing from my field of vision.
>> When will you provide a downloadable version of your knowledge and
>> experience related to publishing?
>>
>> ciao
>> mc otis
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> To: Prashant Kumar <p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au>
>> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>>
>>
>> In filling in all around Pynchon, this would be an interesting exercise,
>> getting and using ALL the facts and educated guesses
>> one could get........I kinda wish I had time.........
>>
>> But, short answers to provide some framework.....Writers get
>> "advances"--an upfront loan paid back by royalty deductions later---
>> upon which to live while they write their books. TRP had to get these,
>> and especially of some liveable-on size after Crying of Lot 49..
>> We know by hearsay that he wrote the story that became Lot 49 because he
>> 'needed' money, so royalties from V. (and any initial advance
>> for GR--if there was one) might have entropied his worklife. (is this a
>> psychological 'objective correlative" for his early concern with entropy?
>> One might also remember how he was said to be always running in
>> Positively Fourth Street...'fearing time was running out"? )
>>
>> Anyway, he broke through into, perhaps, enough sales to live on when Lot
>> 49 was published in paperback. He went wide. Lot 49 was
>> many readers' intro into his work and soon enough the Academy was
>> assigning it so sales continued and grew.
>>
>> Then GR was a legitimate NYTimes bestseller.....(minimum 50,00 sold, very
>> minimum....surely over 100, 000, 200,000 then....and
>> earlier ones picked up again.....)
>>
>> And he got grants......a macArthur  when, 80s sometime)...a Guggenheim
>> earlier?........
>>
>> Bigger advances for later works, I'm sure...(aspect of book accounting
>> not much known: an author can sometimes NOT sell enoough copies
>> to earn the royalties that pay back the amount they were advanced YET.....
>>
>> the publishing company still can make nice money on the sales after
>> deducting losses for unclaimed advances.....(work it out sometime w
>> made-up amounts....)
>>
>> And, with Pynchon, unlike any flash in pan, literary or purely
>> commercialm he has always been in print so is always earn ing some
>> royalties...
>>
>> i would essay this too-quick guess.....Today, 2012.....TRP sells maybe
>> 5,000 paperback copies of all his books except GR and Lot 49....
>> (and, yes, that is a reductive generlaized number and I'll bet some
>> plisters might want to speculate on the varying ongoing sales of the
>> various novels)
>> I'd say 10,000 GR a year....and over 20,000 Lot 49 a year........
>>
>> so, do some math....
>>
>> And flame me for hasty stupidities......
>>
>> From: Prashant Kumar <p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au>
>> To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Tyler Wilson <tbsqrd at hotmail.com>; P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>; "
>> against.the.dave at gmail.com" <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 10:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>>
>>
>> Stupid follow up question (it was me who asked the original): how does
>> that translate into average yearly income?
>>
>>
>> 'cos if we imagine (entirely for argument) that TRP gets 15% on books at
>> $30 ea. and 100,000 (I have no idea whether this is a realistic figure)
>> sales for the lifetime of a book, say 20 years, then that's a grad
>> student's stipend of $22,500 p.a.
>>
>> On 16 June 2012 04:30, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know 'nothin, Tyler, but if I have time i may try to get some
>> answers...
>> >
>> >but your post remeinded me that I wanted to answer the post of whoever
>> asked
>> >what a writer like Pynchon earns.........
>> >
>> >And the answer for most writers' printed books is 8 to 15%
>> royaltes--from list price---per sale.
>> >A writer loses no royalties when one buys new from amazon, and
>> such.....(some exception to that
>> >if the publisher has terms regarding lower roylaties if they have to
>> sell at standard wholesale (and higher--what are called 'special sales")
>> prices.)
>> >
>> >There are often bonueses for hitting bestsller lists---almost always the
>> NYT...
>> >
>> >TRP surely had contracts at 15% after GR....earlier ones could have been
>> lower--10--12.5%
>> >but have surely been renegotiated since........
>> >
>> >Writers typically get 50% of all
>> subrights deals.........paperback license, movie rights, Czech editions,
>> etc.)
>> >
>> >One aspect of p's ebook deal that some in the industry wonder about is
>> Why/How did penguin get all of them?
>> >Deals?...why din't they--harper, no slouches---fight to keep the ones
>> they 'own"?
>> >
>> >Ms. Jackson and Thomas obviously wanted Penguin for all..........
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Tyler Wilson <tbsqrd at hotmail.com>
>> >To: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> >Cc: against.the.dave at gmail.com
>> >Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 12:18 PM
>> >Subject: RE: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Any of you folks know anything about--or seen before--the artwork in P's
>> eBook trailer representing Slow Learner?: the bird, the train, the
>> pyramid... I have never seen those graphics, and it seems I would have by
>> now, my not-quite-healthy interest long in the running. I've a distant
>> recollection of reading that he did not at all care for the cover art of the
>> Little Brown first edition. (Can anyone confirm this?) So perhaps these
>> graphics were created for the trailer instead?
>> >Can anyone school me?
>> >With all my gratitude,--T
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: against.the.dave at gmail.com
>> >> Date: Wed, 3  Jun 012  2::5::8  -500<
>> >> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>> >> To: scuffling at gmail.com
>> >> CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 3,, 012  at ::7  AM, Henry M <scuffling at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> http://greg.org/archive/012//6//2//thomas_pynchons_e-book_trailer.html
>> >> > greg.org: the making of: Thomas Pynchon's e-Book Trailer
>> >> > By greg
>> >> > Thomas Pynchon's e-Book Trailer. Four words that I, for one, ever
>> expected
>> >> > to type in this sequence, but here we are. After Long Resistance,
>> >> > Pynchon Allows Novels to Be Sold as E-Books [nyt] Thomas Pynchon on
>> >> > Kindle someday,
>> >> > but not yet ..
>> >>
>> >> Thomas Pynchon - The Complete Collection - eBooks
>> >>
>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNQSSEEBGA
>> >
>>
>
>
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