List of agnostics

[Lemuel Underwing]

So the freedom of choice is an incursion of another reality? I dig it. I
have many questions that I have not asked Tom in person, regretfully
bombarding poor Jack with the same "I don't know, man, ask him!" he sez,
but how?

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>wrote:

> Religion IS paranoia. It is the disease that recreates the world according
> to the fable that everything connects, when, in fact, things rarely
> connect. Spinoza sees everything as an expression of the mind of God, and
> the human mind as that very mind of God incarnate. Of the worlds major
> religions, Taoism and atheism are the only ones that allow for
> disconnection, disparity. And of those, only atheism is the only religion
> that allows for uncorrected divergence. Also, as the great churches crumble
> in the face of scientific method and the advances in quality of life it
> brings, the lesser churches fill the gaps with perversions of dogma that
> make their palaver more palatable to the desperate people who find
> themselves lost in a world too complex to reduce to right and wrong without
> the aid of massive doses of denial. And denial results in projection, which
> connects everything back to God the Projector. I think of theists as people
> who believe independent agencies external to themselves cause them to act
> in ways they would not freely choose. The non-theist knows that the subject
> always chooses, whether consciously or not, and it is precisely the
> complexity of choice that makes possible the irruptions of seeming
> cooperation in the world. These are the anarchist miracles, which,
> projected upon, seem like they could be incursions from another reality.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Lemuel Underwing <luunderwing at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> is there some sort of Religious Paranoia or a Religion *of *Paranoia?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Jude Bloom <jude at bloomradio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I dunno. We're in the midst of what seems unparalleled to me, at least
>>> in modern times: the rapid growth of atheism, and the rapid decline in
>>> religion. The intellectual & moral normalization of atheism. With the
>>> attendant death throes and spasms, i.e. religious craziness & violence.
>>> Plus, I think the fall-out from the Catlick priests & little boys is
>>> underestimated. For many folks, the Church has been irreparably Sanduskied.
>>> Although I see in re-reading Dubliners this week that Joyce was hip to
>>> those guys all along, a hundred years ago.
>>>
>>> I credit Hitchens, myself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Lemuel Underwing <luunderwing at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mr. Malignd, I think you are in the Wrong Place, good sir.  Byron the
>>> Bulb is still out there somewhere, a-shinin' down on us, Pynchonite
>>> Believers and Unbelievers alike. The Chums of Chance are not one of those
>>> more Religious Ballooning Clubs but some of the Crew are certainly more
>>> open to Spiritual Experience...?
>>>
>>> There is a site called reddit.com/r/atheism that may be of some use to
>>> you, but let us keep ourselves on Task, eh? Let us turn away from the
>>> "World" and seek evidence of the Supernatural-in-Pynchon.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:26 PM, <malignd at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Theological niceties aside, what at bottom is faith other than an
>>>> irrational belief in a supernatural spirit world, for which there is not a
>>>> shred of evidence?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
>>>> To: malignd <malignd at aol.com>
>>>> Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 7:20 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: List of agnostics
>>>>
>>>>  On Jun 27, 2012, at 2:49 PM, malignd at aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   I'm an atheist.  The idea that there's a supernatural diety who
>>>> created the universe and also listens personally to everyone's prayers --
>>>> that people believe this ... I can't understand it.  It's the thinking of
>>>> primitive people trying haplessly to explain the unknown to themselves and
>>>> yet it persists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ************************************
>>>>
>>>>  your analysis of faith seems crude at best, but ok ... do your thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: kelber <kelber at mindspring.com>
>>>> To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 11:14 am
>>>> Subject: Re: List of agnostics
>>>>
>>>>  It's hard to believe that all the people on this list would identify themselves
>>>> as agnostics, rather than atheists (though it's possible that Pynchon might be
>>>> an agnostic - there's no way of knowing, which, I guess, makes us all
>>>> Pynchon-agnostics).  Lots of people I know say things such as "I'm not
>>>> religious, but I still think there's some sort of intelligence out there."  I
>>>> don't think they mean it in the Arthur C. Clarke sense, but more in a
>>>> spiritual-lite fear of there not being some sort of overriding moral force
>>>> guiding all that we do.  Personally, I'm an atheist:  there's no god, but if you
>>>> want to be religious, shut the fuck up about it!
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >From: Dave Monroe < <against.the.dave at gmail.com>against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>>> >Sent: Jun 27, 2012 10:41 AM
>>>> >To: pynchon -l < <pynchon-l at waste.org>pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> >Subject: List of agnostics
>>>> >
>>>> >Thomas Pynchon, (born 1937): Catholic-raised author of The Crying of
>>>> >Lot 49 and Gravity's Rainbow. According to former friend, Jules
>>>> >Siegel, "he went to mass and confessed, though to what would be a
>>>> >mystery."
>>>> >
>>>> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics#Authors>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics#Authors
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
> the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
> reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
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