List of agnostics

Thu Jun 28 03:02:08 CDT 2012

You see? Oversimplify and project. Howzat workinforya?

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Lemuel Underwing <luunderwing at gmail.com>wrote:

> So the freedom of choice is an incursion of another reality? I dig it. I
> have many questions that I have not asked Tom in person, regretfully
> bombarding poor Jack with the same "I don't know, man, ask him!" he sez,
> but how?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Religion IS paranoia. It is the disease that recreates the world
>> according to the fable that everything connects, when, in fact, things
>> rarely connect. Spinoza sees everything as an expression of the mind of
>> God, and the human mind as that very mind of God incarnate. Of the worlds
>> major religions, Taoism and atheism are the only ones that allow for
>> disconnection, disparity. And of those, only atheism is the only religion
>> that allows for uncorrected divergence. Also, as the great churches crumble
>> in the face of scientific method and the advances in quality of life it
>> brings, the lesser churches fill the gaps with perversions of dogma that
>> make their palaver more palatable to the desperate people who find
>> themselves lost in a world too complex to reduce to right and wrong without
>> the aid of massive doses of denial. And denial results in projection, which
>> connects everything back to God the Projector. I think of theists as people
>> who believe independent agencies external to themselves cause them to act
>> in ways they would not freely choose. The non-theist knows that the subject
>> always chooses, whether consciously or not, and it is precisely the
>> complexity of choice that makes possible the irruptions of seeming
>> cooperation in the world. These are the anarchist miracles, which,
>> projected upon, seem like they could be incursions from another reality.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Lemuel Underwing <luunderwing at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> is there some sort of Religious Paranoia or a Religion *of *Paranoia?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Jude Bloom <jude at bloomradio.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I dunno. We're in the midst of what seems unparalleled to me, at least
>>>> in modern times: the rapid growth of atheism, and the rapid decline in
>>>> religion. The intellectual & moral normalization of atheism. With the
>>>> attendant death throes and spasms, i.e. religious craziness & violence.
>>>> Plus, I think the fall-out from the Catlick priests & little boys is
>>>> underestimated. For many folks, the Church has been irreparably Sanduskied.
>>>> Although I see in re-reading Dubliners this week that Joyce was hip to
>>>> those guys all along, a hundred years ago.
>>>>
>>>> I credit Hitchens, myself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Lemuel Underwing <luunderwing at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Malignd, I think you are in the Wrong Place, good sir.  Byron the
>>>> Bulb is still out there somewhere, a-shinin' down on us, Pynchonite
>>>> Believers and Unbelievers alike. The Chums of Chance are not one of those
>>>> more Religious Ballooning Clubs but some of the Crew are certainly more
>>>> open to Spiritual Experience...?
>>>>
>>>> There is a site called reddit.com/r/atheism that may be of some use to
>>>> you, but let us keep ourselves on Task, eh? Let us turn away from the
>>>> "World" and seek evidence of the Supernatural-in-Pynchon.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:26 PM, <malignd at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Theological niceties aside, what at bottom is faith other than an
>>>>> irrational belief in a supernatural spirit world, for which there is not a
>>>>> shred of evidence?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
>>>>> To: malignd <malignd at aol.com>
>>>>> Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 7:20 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: List of agnostics
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Jun 27, 2012, at 2:49 PM, malignd at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   I'm an atheist.  The idea that there's a supernatural diety who
>>>>> created the universe and also listens personally to everyone's prayers --
>>>>> that people believe this ... I can't understand it.  It's the thinking of
>>>>> primitive people trying haplessly to explain the unknown to themselves and
>>>>> yet it persists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>  your analysis of faith seems crude at best, but ok ... do your thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: kelber <kelber at mindspring.com>
>>>>> To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 11:14 am
>>>>> Subject: Re: List of agnostics
>>>>>
>>>>>  It's hard to believe that all the people on this list would identify themselves
>>>>> as agnostics, rather than atheists (though it's possible that Pynchon might be
>>>>> an agnostic - there's no way of knowing, which, I guess, makes us all
>>>>> Pynchon-agnostics).  Lots of people I know say things such as "I'm not
>>>>> religious, but I still think there's some sort of intelligence out there."  I
>>>>> don't think they mean it in the Arthur C. Clarke sense, but more in a
>>>>> spiritual-lite fear of there not being some sort of overriding moral force
>>>>> guiding all that we do.  Personally, I'm an atheist:  there's no god, but if you
>>>>> want to be religious, shut the fuck up about it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Laura
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >From: Dave Monroe < <against.the.dave at gmail.com>against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>>>> >Sent: Jun 27, 2012 10:41 AM
>>>>> >To: pynchon -l < <pynchon-l at waste.org>pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>> >Subject: List of agnostics
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Thomas Pynchon, (born 1937): Catholic-raised author of The Crying of
>>>>> >Lot 49 and Gravity's Rainbow. According to former friend, Jules
>>>>> >Siegel, "he went to mass and confessed, though to what would be a
>>>>> >mystery."
>>>>> >
>>>>> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics#Authors>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agnostics#Authors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust
>> in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
>> groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
>> urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>>
>
>

-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all creeds
the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in
reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness
groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates than the simplest
urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20120628/52baba2b/attachment.html>