Mysteries of modern life

[Paul Mackin]

On 3/5/2012 2:40 PM, Bled Welder wrote:
>
> "The favorite Christian response to this is that everyone
> knows what evil is, and if you don't then you're just too callous to
> admit what you know to be true."
>
> That is so hysterical it's difficult to stop laughing.  Ah, Christians.  You gotta love their puny malodorous souls.


Well, maybe so, but . . . .

As I understand it, most moral philosophers today do not concern 
themselves with what is good and what is evil, the supposition being 
that everyone knows already. (the exception might be the Utilitarians 
if there are still any around) No, the big brains in the field seek to 
learn WHY, really really why, say, killing is something that shouldn't 
be done.

Killing--violence par excellence--is what we've always had with us, 
starting in our mythic past--Cain and Abel. But, no question, violence 
in the 20th and 21st Century has occurred with a massiveness that would 
be inconceivable to previous centuries.

But wait a minute. Isn't our very species founded on a massive kind of 
violence, on genocide in fact?  I'm just guessing but it seems entirely 
likely that Neanderthal Man had to be extinguished in order for the 
dominant Homo sapiens to advance. No implication of any kind of 
culpability intended here, and certainly no downplaying of the 
dreadfulnesses of our modern times. But it does make you think.

P




>
>
>  > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 11:21:17 -0800
>  > Subject: Re: Mysteries of modern life
>  > From: igrlivingston at gmail.com
>  > To: mackin.paul at verizon.net
>  > CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
>  >
>  > Yes, fear and evil. But when we attribute evil, it is necessary to
>  > define it. The favorite Christian response to this is that everyone
>  > knows what evil is, and if you don't then you're just too callous to
>  > admit what you know to be true. Dead end.
>  >
>  > Enter Ludwig Feuerbach with his psychological God. God is the best of
>  > what we divine in ourselves, bundled up and projected out into a
>  > Heaven where He cannot be found by earthly means. We are thus
>  > preserved from having to be and do good because the good in us is now
>  > God and we can never attain godhood. Then, a coupla centuries later,
>  > another northern European comes along and says similar things about
>  > evil / badhood. Our most loathsome qualities are cast out into the
>  > Shadow, the suppressed knowledge of which subtly manipulates us so
>  > that we do against our conscious will things that we regret later. And
>  > that regret, if it does not mature into proper remorse and amended
>  > behavior, then reinforces the shadow / evil, and we become, thus,
>  > increasingly controlled by the badass shadow / Devil, who continually
>  > gains power.
>  >
>  > If we combine these two, don't we get a pretty good picture of the
>  > reactionary who enters on a course to acquire power over others in
>  > order to enforce his or her own projection of the good / God on people
>  > who display evidence of that person's repressed shadow? That person,
>  > after all is a very much pared-down version of who and what they might
>  > be if they were to integrate their own good and evil into their
>  > conscious psyche. But that is precisely the forbidden fruit of the
>  > Genesis story, ain't it? If we have knowledge of our own best and
>  > worst potentials, are we then like gods? Is that what the dichotomists
>  > fear? That by achieving personal harmony, we might challenge Heaven so
>  > that God will have to throw us down with the Angel into the lake of
>  > fire? Are we faced with a self-knowledge that represents the End
>  > Times?
>  >
>  > We, i.e., the collective Saxon-Celtic warrior culture, have brought
>  > more cruelty and violence to bear on the world than could ever have
>  > been imagined in any prophet's wildest dreams of oppression, always in
>  > the name of rooting out some perceived evil in the other we oppress or
>  > attack. That haunts us all collectively and individually, according to
>  > the Jungian model of psychosis, and we cannot change course and do
>  > good, because God wouldn't like it if we reclaimed Him. Wealth,
>  > resources, trade routes, religion--these are trappings, excuses for
>  > behavior, neither good nor ill themselves. No other is evil, except as
>  > we see in them something we fear or loathe in ourselves; and no other
>  > is good except as we see in them some fine quality we keep hidden from
>  > ourselves. As Michael alluded to above, it is the bifurcation of the
>  > perceived world into us and them that motivates our violent behaviors.
>  > What once is divided requires something like a miracle become restored
>  > as whole.
>  >
>  > Did anyone bring the Super Glue to the rally?
>  >
>  > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>  > > On 3/5/2012 6:45 AM, Joe Allonby wrote:
>  > >>
>  > >> He may be just a true believer in his own twisted fears, reinforced by
>  > >> his wife's experiences. The presence of his disabled child adds some
>  > >> weight to his anti-abortion sentiments. He seems like another guy
>  > >> driven more by his gut than logic.
>  > >>
>  > >> I think fear is the driving motivation of the teabaggers and Christian
>  > >> rightists. They think that their way of life is in danger of dying
>  > >> out. They're right. Their current political activism is the death
>  > >> throe of a moribund culture. Their enemy is not the "elitists". It is
>  > >> the urban rank and file who are used to diversity and the youth who
>  > >> have grown up with it. They are nostalgic for a golden age that never
>  > >> really existed. The true elitists of the Republican Party attempted to
>  > >> exploit this and it has backfired. The lunatics have taken over the
>  > >> asylum.
>  > >>
>  > >> This shall pass. Death wins in the end. Then someone will manufacture
>  > >> a new enemy to fear. It won't be communism, or blacks, or immigrants,
>  > >> or Islamofascists, or atheists. But there will always be Eurasia or
>  > >> Eastasia somewhere.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Yes, and well said. Fear is an element. Sense of weakness,
> inferiority, the
>  > > feeling that one's values are being superseded--ressentiment may be the
>  > > right word. All this despite the fact that people under the sway of
> such
>  > > ideas may be well places materially and socially, have Ivy League
> degrees
>  > > not infrequently, and otherwise be among the favored.
>  > >
>  > > And also, as you suggest, the attraction of these extreme solutions
> may be
>  > > fortified by trauma--example of a lost child.
>  > >
>  > > And I think some correlation might be found between extreme belief
> and a
>  > > history of previously held extreme DISbelief. A familiar example
> would be
>  > > the former Communist true believer who, disallusioned with these ideas,
>  > > switches over to a radically held neo-conservatism. Karen
> Santorum's switch
>  > > is also stark. From abortion implementer to the totally opposite
> position.
>  > > (I hope I'm not misrepresenting Karen on this--should probably
> reread the
>  > > article before shooting my mouth off)
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > P
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Joseph Tracy<brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>> they(the Santorums) found themselves joined up with the Ubers,
> a group
>  > >>>>> Gary Will says are not Catholics but Papists, who
>  > >>>>> seemingly get their marching orders direct from Rome.
>  > >>>
>  > >>> In 2010 the pope after meeting with vatican scientists said that
>  > >>> Anthropogenic global warming is real and poses a threat to life
> on earth and
>  > >>> called on all catholics to act to reduce carbon. I found this
> info out of
>  > >>> curiosity after Santorum essentially said Obama promoted phony
> theology
>  > >>> through his assent to global warming. How does that add up. Is
> Santorum
>  > >>> really so sincere in his reverence for the role of his faith?
> Pope preaches
>  > >>> phony theology? And how deep can the theological pull of the
> religion most
>  > >>> widely known in the last 3 decades for child molesting be? And
> weren't a
>  > >>> lot of church leaders fairly committed Hitler fans? Prolly had to
> say dozens
>  > >>> of Hail Marys and Our Fathers after that.
>  > >>>
>  > >>> But my gut says Joe is right. The guy is a true believer,
> whatever that
>  > >>> means. Maybe it just means always having someone to fear and hate
> as though
>  > >>> they were the anti-christ, a framing of reality which probably
> seems pretty
>  > >>> real after an affair with the abortionist who also caught you
> coming out of
>  > >>> your mothers vagina. If you wrote this in a novel about a Republican
>  > >>> Catholic presidential candidate, people would think it was an
> over the top
>  > >>> anti-faith, anti-conservative hatchet job. Well if there is a God, he
>  > >>> writes some pretty weird shit.
>  > >>>
>  > >>> It is as though these guys real job is to make Obama look
> sensible and
>  > >>> middle of the road as he steers us into another bloody massacre over
>  > >>> imaginary WMDs and eviscerates what remains of the Bill of
> Rights. Is it
>  > >>> fascism yet?
>  > >>>
>  > >>> If I was President
>  > >>> And the Congress call my name
>  > >>> I'd say "who do ...
>  > >>> Who do you think you're fooling?"
>  > >>> I've got the Presidential Seal
>  > >>> I'm up on the Presidential Podium
>  > >>> My mama loves me
>  > >>> She loves me
>  > >>> She gets down on her knees and hugs me
>  > >>> And she loves me like a rock
>  > >>> She rocks me like the rock of ages
>  > >>> And she loves me
>  > >>> She loves me, loves me, loves me, loves me
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Joe Allonby wrote:
>  > >>>
>  > >>>> I think Santorum is a rarity in that he is a true believer. Bachmann
>  > >>>> too. Most of right wing guys are disingenuous. They know that their
>  > >>>> rhetoric is tautology. Lower taxes don't produce prosperity.
>  > >>>> Government spending actually creates jobs. Reaganomics was a
> disaster.
>  > >>>> This country wasn't founded by Christian zealots. There is no danger
>  > >>>> of Sharia law. Obama wasn't born in Kenya. They just play the
>  > >>>> Straussian game.
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Paul Mackin<mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>  > >>>> wrote:
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>> The p-list isn't big on electoral politics but one thing I'm always
>  > >>>>> wondering about is where extreme right wing Republican
>  > >>>>> would-be-candidates
>  > >>>>> can possibly be coming from.
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>> One answer came in a fascinating front page story in this morning's
>  > >>>>> Times.
>  > >>>>> How many times do you run across a woman who (in later life) had a
>  > >>>>> seven
>  > >>>>> year affair with the obstetrician who delivered her, that
> doctor also
>  > >>>>> being
>  > >>>>> a prominent Pittsburgh abortion provider. Well, Karen Santorum
> did, and
>  > >>>>> only
>  > >>>>> gave up that love after meeting Rick Santorum--the rest being
> history.
>  > >>>>> Rather miraculously she returned to her estranged family and their
>  > >>>>> ancestral
>  > >>>>> Catholic faith, and Rick experienced a big bolster to his lukewarm
>  > >>>>> faith as
>  > >>>>> well. And after not too much soul searching they found themselves
>  > >>>>> joined up
>  > >>>>> with the Ubers, a group Gary Will says are not Catholics but
> Papists,
>  > >>>>> who
>  > >>>>> seemingly get their marching orders direct from Rome. There's no
>  > >>>>> shortage of
>  > >>>>> such types around Washington, most famously an enclave of them
> in the
>  > >>>>> upscale suburb of Great Falls, Virginia. They attend St.
> Catherine of
>  > >>>>> Sienna
>  > >>>>> Catholic Church where they can hear Mass in Latin. They send
> their kids
>  > >>>>> to
>  > >>>>> Opus Dei Schools, etc. etc. Justice Scalia is prominent among them.
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>> Strange and seemingly true. but can it possibly explain anything?
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/us/politics/from-nominal-catholic-to-clarion-of-faith.html?pagewanted=2&hp
>  > >>>>>
>  > >>>>> P
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > "Less than any man have I excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
>  > creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
>  > trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
>  > of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
>  > than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant