(np) big O, say it isn't so...

[Ian Livingston]

> What Laura see as a clear-eyed realism is actually ultra-myopathy.  If
> she can't see the difference between Us versus Them, if she thinks
> corporations are going to make Obama a shoe-in, if she can't see the
> difference between an attempt at accommodation of some of Their goals
> (misguided as it's been) and being in Their camp (and essentially no
> different), then I rest my case...


Not much of a case as stated there, David. Your argument as seems,
essentially, to be: a) there is no difference between accommodating
some corporate aims and full entrenchment in "Their camp"; b)
corporations will not back Obama, c) so his re-election contestable;
d) therefore Obama is in "Their camp"; and e) it is myopic to think
Obama will easily win in November.

It's a wonky argument. It was a quick-fire, I know, and not
representative of your ample talents. So I stand to reinforce Laura's
reasoned approach.

I do believe the Republican Party per se will pull out all the stops
once they have a candidate and that the ensuing melee will likely be
epic, and may even shape perception of the Republican Party, if not
the two-party system, for years to come. Even so, I think it is
altogether likely that Obama will win decisively, and that the real
battle between now and November is in getting as many neo-cons as is
possible out of Congress, hopefully replacing them with at least
liberal, if not progressive, candidates in as many districts as is
possible in order to balance out the overly big business oriented
establishment now entrenched. The pendulum has swung as far to the
right as we can bear and survive as a nation, any further
disenfranchisement of the working class, women, and minorities may
well bear catastrophic fruit. I think even They (i.e., corporate
captains) know this and will thus use all in Their power to dampen the
tinder of the American public. Obama will most likely remain in office
if he is able to toe the centrist line, but will he get a quorum with
which to pursue liberal policies? Will enough progressives enter
office to effect real change? That's the real "What if..." terrain in
my mind. It is imperative that the Democrats get out and vote, and the
Republicans are obviously terrified that they just might. Give them
representation in Congress for a while and the people might simmer
down for a few years. The powers that be surely recognize that these
are dicey times.

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:59 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> What Laura see as a clear-eyed realism is actually ultra-myopathy.  If
> she can't see the difference between Us versus Them, if she thinks
> corporations are going to make Obama a shoe-in, if she can't see the
> difference between an attempt at accommodation of some of Their goals
> (misguided as it's been) and being in Their camp (and essentially no
> different), then I rest my case...
>
> David Morris
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:08 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> I'm solidly in with Joseph and Ian on this one. Obama will win easily.  The Republican primaries are a side-show that have clogged news coverage at the expense of real stories.
>>
>> During the Dubya years, progressives fell into a noxious us-vs-them mentality. Believe me, I fell prey to it too.  Us: smart, hip, anti-war, anti-racist, anti-corporate-profiteering, pro-choice, etc.  Them: war mongering, rich, corporate, Christian-right, and totally uncool.   Instead of political analyses, all we had to do was compare Dubya to a chimp to score PC points.  What was the natural antidote (and antithesis) to the smirking, Republican idiot?  A quasi-hip Democrat, a black man who could inspire black people and soothe white liberal guilt, who could stand up in public and diss Bush just the way we did - how totally cool and PC.
>>
>> But here's where the us-vs-them mentality trips us up.  Because Obama straddles both camps. Which leg you're focussing on dictates how you feel about Obama.  I see the banker-friendly, insurance-industry-loving, war-mongering leg.  Obviously, Henry sees the other leg.  Obama's a shoo-in for a second term, given the love-fest with his corporate backers.  My greatest worry is that, just as only Nixon could go to China, only Obama can bomb Iran while keeping progressives quiet.  Oh for a wild, unrestrained progressive president - like Nixon!
>>
>> Laura



-- 
"Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant