Background for _Vineland_?

Madeleine Maudlin madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com
Tue May 22 11:59:04 CDT 2012


Yes, basically I noticed it wasn't Mr.B writing, so I sort of grossly
assumed it was M.  The whole thing was just a kneejerk reaction--

(M's going why the hell would you assume I defend Mr.B?!)

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>wrote:

> On 5/22/2012 12:39 PM, Madeleine Maudlin wrote:
>
>> I disagree with everything you say about Aquinas.  Maybe the question is
>> a little deeper than you're noticing.  Or you don't have a good answer,
>> or even a valid answer.
>>
>> The stupid, undeep question, which neither you nor Orlando will answer,
>> is why /you/ believe it.
>>
>
> I never said I believed it.  Was just saying why non "believing" folks can
> still identify as Christians.
>
> But I see your point--I wasn't the right person to answer your
> question--you can't say why you believe something if you already don't.
>
> P
>
>
>
>  I understand fully why an uneducated and
>
>> stupid child would believe it.  They're told to believe it.  But why
>> /you/.  Who should by all sane accounts, know better.
>>
>>
>> If neither you nor Michael are Protestants, or Christians, than forget
>> about it.  Laugh at the pathetic Christians with me.  I only asked
>> because I had decided that Bailey is a Protestant, and he said something
>> about Protestants.  Great scholars, poor on the religion choices.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net
>> <mailto:mackin.paul at verizon.**net <mackin.paul at verizon.net>>> wrote:
>>
>>    On 5/22/2012 10:17 AM, Madeleine Maudlin wrote:
>>
>>        I suppose you can't answer as to why Aquinas doesn't have his own
>>        Church.  Who knows.  But why be a Protestant?  What's it do.
>>          What good
>>        is it.  Is it the Truth?  Path to eternal life in Heaven?  Do
>>        Protestants believe in heaven?  What is a Protestant?
>>
>>        But more broadly, why be a Christian, is the question.
>>
>>
>>    Because your parents were. Or more broadly because Western
>>    Civilization was. It's a tradition thing.
>>
>>    If you're Jewish, it doesn't mean you believe in the religious
>>    aspects or practice them.  So why not the same for Christians?
>>
>>    Aquinas didn't start his own church because he was quite happy with
>>    the one that was already there . Switching from one Greek
>>    philosopher to another doesn't really change Christian belief.
>>      Philosophy is only a tool to try to clarify things with.
>>
>>    Any more of these deep questions need answerin'?
>>
>>    P
>>
>>
>>
>>        At first when I came across it on here I didn't believe it was a
>>        serious
>>        vibration, but now I believe that people on here are actual
>>        Christians.
>>          This is shocking to me, because I've always been largely under
>> the
>>        impression that well educated and intelligent people are /not/
>>        Christians.
>>
>>
>>        Does it fit your personality?  Are you interested in the
>>        architecture?
>>          Do you really think Jesus, the supposed Son of God, was nailed
>>        to a
>>        cross and died for your sins?  As that the clincher?  Does that
>>        notion
>>        turn you on?  Do you repent yours sins?  Or is that just for
>>        Catholics...?
>>
>>
>>        On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Michael Bailey
>>        <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com
>>        <mailto:michael.lee.bailey@**gmail.com<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>> >
>>        <mailto:michael.lee.bailey at __g**mail.com <http://gmail.com>
>>
>>        <mailto:michael.lee.bailey@**gmail.com<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>            buncha good questions, here's another: that school that Mr
>>        Pynchon
>>            sent his son to and donated signed books to, isn't that a
>>        Protestant
>>            institution - I'm thinking Episcopal...
>>
>>            anyway, I was just opining - the Immaculate Heart College
>>        kind of a
>>            PR3 situation, struck me - I also do a lot of posting and
>>        not enough
>>            researching, but the nuns working out a new order of things
>>        and then
>>            getting shown the door and that wonderful college, of which
>>        I think I
>>            saw that Mary Tyler Moore was an alum, getting closed down, and
>>            liberation theology falling victim to conservatism, and the
>>        contras
>>            supported by the right-wing beneficiaries of Vatican
>>        conservatism,
>>            gunning down that dude serving Mass, and that wonderful
>>        priest who
>>            tried to unionize his brethren getting read the Riot Act by
>>        the wicked
>>            Archbishop of Nottingham...
>>
>>            well it's the kind of stuff Protestants protest about, is how
>> it
>>            struck me
>>
>>            the jealous guarding of priestly prerogatives, the harsh
>>        disciplines
>>            and rigid hierarchies and the chauvinism
>>            (and just perhaps, untoward side effects of celibacy...)
>>
>>            -- like the Senator from Utah who really thought the ERA
>>        would spell
>>            the end of the Republic, McIntyres was (the man who squats
>>        behind The
>>            Man who works the Soft Machine) the kind of person it's really
>>            tempting to think ill of, the sender of emissaries like
>>        Brock Vond...
>>
>>
>>
>>            On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Madeleine Maudlin
>>        <madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com <mailto:madeleinemaudlin@**gmail.com<madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com>
>> >
>>        <mailto:madeleinemaudlin at __gma**il.com <http://gmail.com>
>>
>>        <mailto:madeleinemaudlin@**gmail.com <madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com>>>>
>> wrote:
>>         > I suppose I should have also inquired, is Pynchon a Protestant,
>>            Aquinian?
>>         >  Again, flying without clicking the links...
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Madeleine Maudlin
>>         > <madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com
>>        <mailto:madeleinemaudlin@**gmail.com <madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com>>
>>        <mailto:madeleinemaudlin at __gma**il.com <http://gmail.com>
>>
>>        <mailto:madeleinemaudlin@**gmail.com <madeleinemaudlin at gmail.com>
>> >>>
>>
>>            wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> What's a Protestant do again?  Why be Protestant?
>>         >>
>>         >> I ask because I had reason to consider Christianity for a few
>>            minutes
>>         >> yesterday.  Now here's a passing question: you had
>>        neoPlatonism in
>>         >> Christianity for what, the first half?  Then Aquinas brought in
>>            Aristotle,
>>         >> and made Christianity much, more sane, maybe, kind of like the
>>            Protesters
>>         >> did.  Why didn't Aquinas get his own branch of Christianity?
>>  Or
>>            did he?
>>         >>  Are there Animist churches of Christ, is that the line they'd
>>            be, are?
>>         >>  Animist Catholics?
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:26 AM, Michael Bailey
>>         >> <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com
>>        <mailto:michael.lee.bailey@**gmail.com<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>> >
>>        <mailto:michael.lee.bailey at __g**mail.com <http://gmail.com>
>>        <mailto:michael.lee.bailey@**gmail.com<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>>>>
>> wrote:
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_**_Sisters_of_the_Immaculate___**
>> Heart_of_Mary<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Sisters_of_the_Immaculate___Heart_of_Mary>
>>
>>        <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Sisters_of_the_Immaculate_**
>> Heart_of_Mary<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisters_of_the_Immaculate_Heart_of_Mary>
>> >
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Must say (as a Protestant, and you're free to say similar
>> stuff
>>            about
>>         >>> John Calvin and most definitely Martin Luther if you're a
>>        Catholic)
>>         >>> that McIntyre guy sounds like a real dick!
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >
>>
>>
>>
>>            --
>>        "Strength you will acquire naturally, if you do plenty of work; and
>>            dexterity you will acquire unconsciously with practice; but
>>        style you
>>            can only acquire by constant attention, and then only if you
>>        have a
>>            clear idea of what to aim at." - A. F. Jenkin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20120522/2b677d90/attachment.html>


More information about the Pynchon-l mailing list