Back to AtD "nothin like that"...Or basic masculine stuff, eh Alice?

[Mark Kohut]

Paul M. writes:
Yeah, this last is what I was sort of trying to get a handle on.
Reef's very uxoriousness doesn't seem to quite jibe with his idea of 
honor.

He was unwilling to take the submissive role with Cyprian, while it 
comes quite willingly with Yashmeen.
Of course the domains of action are a little different, but still . . . 

MK:
Paul, I misunderstood. Lost track of who the pronouns were referring to. 

I meant Cyprian would always feel like calling her M'am..but Reef says
once to Cyprian that They WANT to be told what is what...(can't find 
exact quote...but Reef scores Cyprian for his abject submissiveness with the remark

p.863 Reef thinking: "Always him to her, he noted to himself, that was the pattern,
best to keep that in mind."

After, however in the same paragraph, Reef has been wondering why desire for 
Yashmeen never fades as it always used to [with others]. But, he ain't the
reflective type---"not a question he lost much recreational time over. Her irressitibility
filled the day, leaving little time for thought."......

Filled the day, not worked against it....







----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Back to AtD "nothin like that"...Or basic masculine stuff, eh Alice?

On 5/27/2012 2:43 PM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> Paul Mackin asks:
> Wonder if Reef's honor always holds up when he dealing with Yashmeen.
> Seems it does. When they have Ljubica, he is a total father and
> Yashmeen's full man when Cyprian decides
> he has to part from them. That hurts Reef too, as if he full identified
> with Yashmeen. Almost co-consciously.
> PM:
> Does Reef call on Cyprian because he can do him in ways Yashmeen doesn't
> allow?
> Doesn't seem so. Cyprian is as 'female' in the acts with Reef as
> Yashmeen is. Reef
> is all man with either? "With no resources to express his feelings to
> Cyprian, eEef settled for
> practical planning."--p. 961 Stereotypical man who cannot express his
> feelings? And with
> Yashmeen the way is thru the act of fathering a baby?
> PM:
> Does Yash insist he call her ma'am--wouldn't surprise me a bit.
> Not literally that I can remember, but in effect. And he would seem to
> want to anyway.


Yeah, this last is what I was sort of trying to get a handle on.

Reef's very uxoriousness doesn't seem to quite jibe with his idea of 
honor.

He was unwilling to take the submissive role with Cyprian, while it 
comes quite willingly with Yashmeen.

Of course the domains of action are a little different, but still . . . .


P


>
> I'm asking for information. Been five years since last reading.
> P
> P.S (from MK) regarding some of the gender threads that have gone around
> recently, TRP
> seems to have some decided perspectives on all that contained most
> concentratedly in the
> Reef-Cyprian-Yashmeen scenes...maybe along with Stray and Ewball
>
>
>