Back to AtD "nothin like that"...Or basic masculine stuff, eh Alice?

[Paul Mackin]

On 5/28/2012 11:06 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> Paul M. writes:
> Yeah, this last is what I was sort of trying to get a handle on.
> Reef's very uxoriousness doesn't seem to quite jibe with his idea of
> honor.
>
> He was unwilling to take the submissive role with Cyprian, while it
> comes quite willingly with Yashmeen.
> Of course the domains of action are a little different, but still . . .
>
> MK:
> Paul, I misunderstood. Lost track of who the pronouns were referring to.
>
> I meant Cyprian would always feel like calling her M'am..but Reef says
> once to Cyprian that They WANT to be told what is what...(can't find
> exact quote...but Reef scores Cyprian for his abject submissiveness with the remark
>
> p.863 Reef thinking: "Always him to her, he noted to himself, that was the pattern,
> best to keep that in mind."
>
> After, however in the same paragraph, Reef has been wondering why desire for
> Yashmeen never fades as it always used to [with others]. But, he ain't the
> reflective type---"not a question he lost much recreational time over. Her irressitibility
> filled the day, leaving little time for thought."......
>
> Filled the day, not worked against it....

Good answer. My point was obscure, perhaps without a lot of meaning.

It was just that honor may not have been quite the right word for Reef 
to come up with.

P


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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Mackin<mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Back to AtD "nothin like that"...Or basic masculine stuff, eh Alice?
>
> On 5/27/2012 2:43 PM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>> Paul Mackin asks:
>> Wonder if Reef's honor always holds up when he dealing with Yashmeen.
>> Seems it does. When they have Ljubica, he is a total father and
>> Yashmeen's full man when Cyprian decides
>> he has to part from them. That hurts Reef too, as if he full identified
>> with Yashmeen. Almost co-consciously.
>> PM:
>> Does Reef call on Cyprian because he can do him in ways Yashmeen doesn't
>> allow?
>> Doesn't seem so. Cyprian is as 'female' in the acts with Reef as
>> Yashmeen is. Reef
>> is all man with either? "With no resources to express his feelings to
>> Cyprian, eEef settled for
>> practical planning."--p. 961 Stereotypical man who cannot express his
>> feelings? And with
>> Yashmeen the way is thru the act of fathering a baby?
>> PM:
>> Does Yash insist he call her ma'am--wouldn't surprise me a bit.
>> Not literally that I can remember, but in effect. And he would seem to
>> want to anyway.
>
>
> Yeah, this last is what I was sort of trying to get a handle on.
>
> Reef's very uxoriousness doesn't seem to quite jibe with his idea of
> honor.
>
> He was unwilling to take the submissive role with Cyprian, while it
> comes quite willingly with Yashmeen.
>
> Of course the domains of action are a little different, but still . . . .
>
>
> P
>
>
>>
>> I'm asking for information. Been five years since last reading.
>> P
>> P.S (from MK) regarding some of the gender threads that have gone around
>> recently, TRP
>> seems to have some decided perspectives on all that contained most
>> concentratedly in the
>> Reef-Cyprian-Yashmeen scenes...maybe along with Stray and Ewball
>>
>>
>>
>