Misc.
Markekohut
markekohut at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 4 17:01:37 CST 2012
I see the same and ne'er expressed it. Nice.
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 4, 2012, at 5:49 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I understand the low vs high art as reference. So did P. But P reveres high art too. He aspires to high art. And he seems in V. to have very conservative sympathies. For example: anti p-abortion message, anti-string, anti-all things artificial. He then still had some very religious baggage.
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>
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>> My bias is I cannot easily see TRP against Pop Art since popular culture and what it makes us
>> Pervades his work. This is why seeing the visual arts of the time as running right alongside V. even came to me. But I may be seeing by my own goggles.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 3:46 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> There is nothing serious (or realistic) about that V painter. Repetition of bagel as subject is mass production, and implies Warhol. I can't think of a realist that repeats any object over and over. Warhol is still most famous for his multiple portraits of celebrities in various colors. Mass production.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>>> I think I remember that soulless artist, yes, but I do remember thinking whatever he was drawing was a comment on the end of that artistic tradition--realistic bagels ( I cannot remember them but
>>> If P's (or Morris's creative misremembering) satiric object, I like it as a joke on still life works, on domestic scenes in art, etc., perhaps 'realism' in general.
>>>
>>> True about the comic tradition SO is it stupid of me to try to get somewhere in "refuting" the wooden heads who want well-rounded characters even in early TRP? Are we way beyond that, so to speak? (EXcept for Wood and Kakutani and a few) who still hold out for that in pretty much all fiction?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 2:41 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually P was making fun of mindless art, but he featured a soulless artist churning out endless bagel (I think) paintings.
>>>>
>>>> Cartoons have always been in literature, usually called comedy, satire, parody...
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>>>> I thought P made fun of abstract expressionism in V. , no? And in AtD maybe?
>>>>
>>>> My question still exists, I think, independent of one's final take on Pop Art, but maybe I am wrong
>>>> And they are progressively knotted.
>>>>
>>>> My question is: the Zeitgeist accepted, created, room for cartoon representation in Art, however
>>>> Wrong or degraded that might be. Felt that the human representation from Vermeer, Whistler thru
>>>> Winslow Homer ( (and fill in the blank) had, maybe, said all it could and now was saying we are no longer as human?
>>>>
>>>> so, since TRP is an artist of his time and 'for all time' we think, have cultural/literary commentators written of TRP in that Zeitgeist perspective? Anyone, anyone?
>>>>
>>>> (I will respectfully disagree on PopArt as a generality. I have always been hit and moved with
>>>> some Rauschenberg ( and others). I have said to Many Anti-folks, " but many of our emotions are now cartoonish")
>>>>
>>>> Much art is Art because of the full embodiment of certain ideas, IMHO. Gombrich's work on THAT within the history of Art convinced me, at least.
>>>>
>>>> Warhol was a massive genius, IMHO. see Danto, others, on. He is Pynchonesque in his embodiment of his Time, in his originality, in his sensibility. but I'm nobody, who are you?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. Warhol? Give me a break.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 4, 2012 11:04 AM, "David Morris" <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> BTW, I think Pop Art, undeniably still very much influential, has led to a degradation of art. It celebrates crass, and is based in cynicism. It is also essentially meta-art: the value of the object is conceptual, not the object's own qualities.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know I sound a retro conservative, but I think I'm looking forward to something better than what now is.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------in
>>>>> From: David Morris
>>>>>
>>>>> P makes fun of Pop Art in V. Pop Art may be a precursor of Post Modernism, but their aesthetics are very dissimilar.
>>>>> Also, Rauschenberg is not generally thought a Pop figure. He's more a modernist collage master.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>>>>> I caught up with a recent Friday NYT, reading luxuriously all the new movie reviews, all the long art show pieces, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lotsa good words on the Rauschenberg exhibit and other pop art from the time.Rauschenberg
>>>>> Drawing cartoon panels as his breakthrou
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