Misc.

[alice wellintown]

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/02/arts/02ARTS.html
On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:

> Yes, it was...thnx.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:25 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>
> Wasn't it a cheese danish?
>
> LK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Markekohut **
> Sent: Nov 4, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: David Morris **
> Cc: Keith Davis **, P-list **
> Subject: Re: Misc.
>
> ************
> **
> David,
>
> I think the joke is in the repetition, I.e. TRP is saying they are
> ultimately all the same. anyway, I can't find bagel in the V. Look Inside
> and can't locate the scene on the wiki. I do remember it as a slam against
> abstract expressionism, perhaps incorrectly, thinking TRP felt that that
> was just about color and paint and soulless--without a reference to human
> beings--in that way.
>
> Mass production, yes...art In the age of mechanical reproduction might be
> a subtext but
> I do not remember thinking Warhol could be implied. If P was implying him
> or other Pop Artists
> then he was as early-aware sensitive as we know he could be. Warhol's '
> Soup Can Show was in July 1962 ( and is often said to be the  first Pop Art
> exhibit). we know the dates of V. And it was about going to press.
>
> My bias is I cannot easily see TRP against Pop Art since popular culture
> and what it makes us
> Pervades his work. This is why seeing the visual arts of the time as
> running right alongside V. even came to me. But I may be seeing by my own
> goggles.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 3:46 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> There is nothing serious (or realistic) about that V painter. Repetition
> of bagel as subject is mass production, and implies Warhol. I can't think
> of a realist that repeats any object over and over.  Warhol is still most
> famous for his multiple portraits of celebrities in various colors. Mass
> production.
>
> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>
> I think I remember that soulless artist, yes, but I do remember thinking
> whatever he was drawing was a comment on the end of that artistic
> tradition--realistic bagels ( I cannot remember them but
> If P's (or Morris's creative misremembering) satiric object, I like it as
> a joke on still life works, on domestic scenes in art, etc., perhaps
> 'realism' in general.
>
> True about the comic tradition SO is it stupid of me to try to get
> somewhere in "refuting" the wooden heads who want well-rounded characters
> even in early TRP? Are we way beyond that, so to speak? (EXcept for Wood
> and Kakutani and a few) who still hold out for that in pretty much all
> fiction?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 2:41 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Actually P was making fun of mindless art, but he featured a soulless
> artist churning out endless bagel (I think) paintings.
>
> Cartoons have always been in literature, usually called comedy, satire,
> parody...
>
> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>
> I thought P made fun of abstract expressionism in V. , no? And in AtD
> maybe?
>
> My question still exists, I think, independent of one's final take on Pop
> Art, but maybe I am wrong
> And they are progressively knotted.
>
> My question is: the Zeitgeist accepted, created, room for cartoon
> representation in Art, however
> Wrong or degraded that might be. Felt that the human representation from
> Vermeer, Whistler thru
> Winslow Homer ( (and fill in the blank) had, maybe, said all it could and
> now was saying we are no longer as human?
>
> so, since TRP is an artist of his time and 'for all time' we think, have
> cultural/literary commentators written of TRP in that Zeitgeist
> perspective? Anyone, anyone?
>
> (I will respectfully disagree on PopArt as a generality. I have always
> been hit and moved with
> some Rauschenberg ( and others). I hav
>
>
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