Misc.

[Markekohut]

I actually saw this exhibition back then. Never had heard of the guy
Yes, the loss of the human again.

Thanks.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 4, 2012, at 7:55 PM, alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/02/arts/02ARTS.html
> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>> Yes, it was...thnx.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 4:25 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Wasn't it a cheese danish?
>>> 
>>> LK
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Markekohut 
>>> Sent: Nov 4, 2012 4:21 PM 
>>> To: David Morris 
>>> Cc: Keith Davis , P-list 
>>> Subject: Re: Misc. 
>>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> I think the joke is in the repetition, I.e. TRP is saying they are ultimately all the same. anyway, I can't find bagel in the V. Look Inside and can't locate the scene on the wiki. I do remember it as a slam against abstract expressionism, perhaps incorrectly, thinking TRP felt that that was just about color and paint and soulless--without a reference to human beings--in that way. 
>>> 
>>> Mass production, yes...art In the age of mechanical reproduction might be a subtext but
>>> I do not remember thinking Warhol could be implied. If P was implying him or other Pop Artists
>>> then he was as early-aware sensitive as we know he could be. Warhol's ' Soup Can Show was in July 1962 ( and is often said to be the  first Pop Art exhibit). we know the dates of V. And it was about going to press. 
>>> 
>>> My bias is I cannot easily see TRP against Pop Art since popular culture and what it makes us
>>> Pervades his work. This is why seeing the visual arts of the time as running right alongside V. even came to me. But I may be seeing by my own goggles.  
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 3:46 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mark,
>>>> 
>>>> There is nothing serious (or realistic) about that V painter. Repetition of bagel as subject is mass production, and implies Warhol. I can't think of a realist that repeats any object over and over.  Warhol is still most famous for his multiple portraits of celebrities in various colors. Mass production.
>>>> 
>>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>>>> I think I remember that soulless artist, yes, but I do remember thinking whatever he was drawing was a comment on the end of that artistic tradition--realistic bagels ( I cannot remember them but
>>>> If P's (or Morris's creative misremembering) satiric object, I like it as a joke on still life works, on domestic scenes in art, etc., perhaps 'realism' in general.
>>>> 
>>>> True about the comic tradition SO is it stupid of me to try to get somewhere in "refuting" the wooden heads who want well-rounded characters even in early TRP? Are we way beyond that, so to speak? (EXcept for Wood and Kakutani and a few) who still hold out for that in pretty much all fiction? 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 2:41 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Actually P was making fun of mindless art, but he featured a soulless artist churning out endless bagel (I think) paintings.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cartoons have always been in literature, usually called comedy, satire, parody...
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sunday, November 4, 2012, Markekohut wrote:
>>>>> I thought P made fun of abstract expressionism in V. , no? And in AtD maybe? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My question still exists, I think, independent of one's final take on Pop Art, but maybe I am wrong
>>>>> And they are progressively knotted. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My question is: the Zeitgeist accepted, created, room for cartoon representation in Art, however
>>>>> Wrong or degraded that might be. Felt that the human representation from Vermeer, Whistler thru
>>>>> Winslow Homer ( (and fill in the blank) had, maybe, said all it could and now was saying we are no longer as human? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> so, since TRP is an artist of his time and 'for all time' we think, have cultural/literary commentators written of TRP in that Zeitgeist perspective? Anyone, anyone?
>>>>> 
>>>>> (I will respectfully disagree on PopArt as a generality. I have always been hit and moved with
>>>>> some Rauschenberg ( and others). I hav
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