It's Pynchon's world, we only try for a little privacy within it

[rich]

Guess I should've been more clear--I wasn't talking about how the CIA
etc are depicted in LeCarre's work (which I think is fair enough) but
in his public statements. It's become shrill. I think the
Circus/Smiley books have more depth to them (the recent remake movie
of Tinker Tailor was dreadful by the way) than the later books--the
whistleblower books I mean.

I expect people to be outraged by much of US foreign policy (or
foreign policy of any nation) -just dont whine about shit I already
know (a personal beef admittedly) or lose the complete complicated
picture in useless screeds against moronic statements by some in the
US. thats not the whole story.

rich

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:
> Part of it might be that Le Carre's work and Cornwell's own earlier
> intelligence work shared the context of an empire in decline: as in
> Fleming's books, MI5/MI6 knew (and resented) that their US counterparts had
> greater resources and reach, even in places that the UK had ruled not long
> before. There's a fin-de-siecle melancholy and resignation about the Circus.
>
> So if US triumphalism -- "the indispensable nation," "what shall we do about
> Egypt/Libya/Syria/Mali?" -- flourishes despite all evidence  that its
> imperial business model is obsolescent, wouldn't you expect that to rub Le
> Carre the wrong way? (Going for explanation rather than excuse or defense
> here)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf
> Of rich
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:26 AM
> To: Markekohut
> Cc: pynchon -l
> Subject: Re: It's Pynchon's world, we only try for a little privacy within
> it
>
> not sure what you mean by "Le Carre is not liked and somehow influential to
> Pynchon for nothing"
>
> if there's anything about this scandal it's more like Homeland--the
> privileged and well-connected and how they fuck things up. Personally I
> think Petreaus get more praise than he really deserves. Iraq and Afghanistan
> are lost wars-only the casualty numbers keeps them from being thrown in with
> Vietnam. For the most pasrt the US military is highly trained and
> skilled--how they have been led is if you listen to folks like Thomas Ricks
> something that hasnt really been debated all that much.
>
> LeCarre though a great novelist has become a kind of crank unfortunately.
> the anti-americanism has become a bit stale imho
>
> rich
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> G-men spy on our spies; they rat on each other to our politicians.
>> Pure Pynchon. a knotted mcCarthyism, so to compress. their love
>> interests harass which breaks open the whole military/ corporate knot.
> Some.
>>
>> Le Carre is not liked and somehow influential to Pynchon for nothing.
>> One can almost imagine this pentagon quadrangle--oops, pentangle ( or
>> more) ---in GR, or time-changed, AtD.
>>
>>
>> boingboing.net/2012/11/13/petraeus-scandal-this-is-the.html?utm_source
>> =dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
>>
>> Download the official Twitter app here
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>