GR translation: more steeply than the waking will ever need

[jochen stremmel]

There's a problem there, Bled. If you translate a piece of literature
into another language you have to decide sometimes what the author
meant with a certain word - if you don't have a word in the other
language that's congruent with the word you read on the page. And that
is not the case with a word like "waking" - in no language I know of.

Sorry.

2012/10/29 Bled Welder <bledwelder at gmail.com>:
> It takes talent?  Pull this off, lady.
>
> I need waking, that steep.  Or is it ly.  If I adverbize it, does it become
> talentful?
>
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:21 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> Of course, you'd have to have talent to pull that off.
>>
>> LK
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bled Welder
>> Sent: Oct 29, 2012 1:14 PM
>> To: Markekohut
>> Cc: Paul Mackin , "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>> Subject: Re: GR translation: more steeply than the waking will ever need
>>
>> Remind me to write a book where everything has "multiple meanings".
>> Idiots will sit around and go, "Well what he meant here is, this, or that,
>> and it could even be this, or that..."
>>
>> I'll be like that guy who wrote that bitchin book that everybody loves to
>> read and think about because it's perfectly elusive and multiply meaningful.
>>
>> "What's he mean here, man?"
>>
>> "Oh, well in that bit there, he possibly meant this..."
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice..".perceptible signs of a different order".....a phrase that could
>>> have come from Crying of Lot 49 and yes to double meaning (at least)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 10/29/2012 8:28 AM, Markekohut wrote:
>>> >> Perhaps all, each and every object? The contrast between order and
>>> >> randomness.
>>> >
>>> > Slothrop senses some kind of disruption in the randomness of the
>>> > room--a  Maxwell's Demon perhaps. The room is "coded." There are perceptible
>>> > signs of a different order.  Order is double meaning here.  There is the
>>> > order (or lack of order) in the arrangement or rearrangement of objects, but
>>> > also there seems to be a Secret Order--the kind of order that takes oaths.
>>> > Another Order.
>>> >
>>> > Consider the use of the word "debris" in the book--it occurs 27
>>> > times--first time by Sloat in observing Slothrup' s desk.  It's a godawful
>>> > mess, completely random, without significance to Sloat's spy mission. Except
>>> > for one thing--the map of London tacked over the desk--it does seem to have
>>> > meaning, relevance.  It's coded. Sloat snaps it with his spy camera.
>>> >
>>> > Sloat is still watching Slothrup at the Casino.  Only this time it's
>>> > Slothrop who is beginning to Observe.
>>> >
>>> > He's not in Kansas anymore.  The normal, waking world is not a closed
>>> > system.  It's been penetrated.
>>> >
>>> > P
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPad
>>> >>
>>> >> On Oct 28, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Mike Jing
>>> >> <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I should really have searched my own email before firing that one
>>> >>> off.
>>> >>> But this discussion of "the waking' is giving me new ideas.  Now I am
>>> >>> thinking of the act of waking up from a dream, and the lingering
>>> >>> images from the dream, which can be thought of as some kind of
>>> >>> "debris".  Or is it actual debris floating and turning in the wake of
>>> >>> a boat?  I may have finally gone off the deep end here.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Anyway, it seems reasonable to assume that "the ordinary debris of
>>> >>> waking" are the ordinary, everyday objects around Slothrop.  Now the
>>> >>> question becomes, which objects belong to "the
>>> >>> paraphernalia of an order whose presence he has only lately begun to
>>> >>> suspect"?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 3:05 AM, jochen stremmel
>>> >>> <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> 2012/10/28 Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>:
>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:56 PM, David Payne
>>> >>>>> <dpayne1912 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> Although see how "waking" is used on p. 205..12::
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> "For a minute here, Slothrop, in his English uniform, is alone
>>> >>>>>> with the paraphernalia of an order whose presence among the ordinary debris
>>> >>>>>> of waking he has only lately begun to suspect."
>>> >>>>> That reminds me, what are these "ordinary debris of waking" anyway?
>>> >>>> Until now I thought Laura had the right answer (from the 12th of
>>> >>>> June):
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It's a nice thought experiment: you're sitting in a cluttered,
>>> >>>> really
>>> >>>> messy room, because you're pretty much of a slob (the room's filled
>>> >>>> with "the ordinary debris of waking.").  But then you're told
>>> >>>> (Slothrop only suspects) that someone has selected certain items in
>>> >>>> the room and moved them, slightly, without your knowledge, for
>>> >>>> purposes beyond your understanding ("Their" order) .  Which objects?
>>> >>>> Why?  That's how Slothrop feels.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Seems still plausible to me.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Perhaps we should ask Max what he made of the two wakings in his
>>> >>>> translation?
>>> >
>>
>>
>