NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

Fri Apr 26 16:55:37 CDT 2013

I take your point, but it's not a very good one.

In the US anyway, our penal system is, depending on who one is talking to, supposed to punish, to rehabilitate, to separate the offender from society, to act as a deterrent, to discourage vigilantism, and to provide some sort of psychological and moral compensation,justice, even retribution, to the victim.  Some of these ends are clearly at odds with each other and some are more applicable to certain sorts of crimes than to others.

It is pretty well agreed, I think, that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent against murder.  It is further complicated by misapplication and racial bias, but I would like to leave that, for the moment as a separate issue.  The death penalty is about addressing the sense of moral compensation and justice to the aggrieved.  When, as in this case, a person in his right mind willfully slaughters and maims innocent people, I don't think it is an argument without legs that that person has lost his claim on being treated humanely.  I'm not saying absolutely that he should be put to death, but I can't say that to do that is out of bounds in every case.  To imprison the person for life, a situation in which parole might be an option or in which a reasonable level of human comfort might be provided -- I'm not sure that's sufficient in every case.  And, alternatively, to subject the person to life imprisonment and endless degradation and pain would be fair more inhumane than death.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto <ottosell at googlemail.com>
To: Pynchon Liste <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Fri, Apr 26, 2013 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

And just because the issue isn't simple the death penalty is so stupid.
Am 26.04.2013 17:56 schrieb  <malignd at aol.com>:

Perhaps.  If creeping senility is my problem, there's probably little I can do for it.  But what exactly are you saying?  This person planted a bomb meant to maim people -- and succeeded handsomely -- and you feel sorry for him?  What exactly are you trying to say?  Again, I suggest you go express your sorrow to the victims. A hypothetical, clearly, but would you have the balls?  I doubt it ... 

You are increasingly sounding like Clint Eastwood talking to a chair.  Just sayin'

-----Original Message-----
From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
To: malignd <malignd at aol.com>
Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Fri, Apr 26, 2013 1:12 am
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

You are increasingly sounding like Clint Eastwood talking to a chair.  Just sayin'

On Thursday, April 25, 2013,   wrote:

You feel sorry for this piece of shit?  Maybe you should travel to Boston and express your feelings to those limbless victims he intentionally destroyed.  Fuck you.

Dz seems a tragic consequence of big brother/father cult influence.  I feel sorry for him.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
To: bandwraith <bandwraith at aol.com>
Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 10:58 pm
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

Dz seems a tragic consequence of big brother/father cult influence.  I feel sorry for him.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013,   wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: bandwraith <bandwraith at aol.com>
To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 7:31 am
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

Sorry, mal, I must have over looked this last evening. 

It is so hard to see anything good or even human in the actions of the Tsarnaev brothers. Trying to understanding them seems alomost self-hating. Your "Who knew?"- more about my simplistic testosterone comment- seems really more to the point about Dzhokhar's persona. Of all the people who did know him and interact with him prior to the horrendus events, that I heard interviewed, not one of them could believe he could have been capable of such a monstrous lack of empathy. He seems truly Other than "We."

The system may put him to death, or no, we'll see, but that's all after the fact. What new barometers will be devised, and how will they be applied, for measuring the potential danger of people who otherwise seem so normal? I find the prospects troubling.

-----Original Message-----
From: malignd malignd at aol.com
To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 22, 2013 6:28 pm
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

<<I think many agree- physically, he's not hard to look at.>> 

He's a murderer but hey! he's cute!  And sociable!  Cut the kid some slack!

<<Men, in general, are more prone to aggression and violence, much of that due testosterone.>>

Who knew?

-----Original Message-----
From: bandwraith <bandwraith at aol.com>
To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 6:14 pm
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

Dzhokhar is especially troubling and difficult to understand. I think many agree- physically, he's not hard to look at. From what I've read and heard, he's bright and sociable. He seemed to have alot going for him. Maybe there is more about him that will come out. Until then, it's an enigma. 

Men, in general, are more prone to aggression and violence, much of that due testosterone. It's tough to say whether background checks would have been useful in this case, but they might have been, given the older brother's encounter with the FBI. Of course, that's part of the reason why extremists of any stripe are resisting them.

-----Original Message-----
From: kelber <kelber at mindspring.com>
To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2013 4:57 pm
Subject: Re: NP? modernity, terrorism, truth and relevance?

It's much easier politically to connect the Boston Marathon bombers with al Qaeda-style terrorism, than to connect them to the mentally ill (i.e. without apparent ideology) gunmen from Columbine to Newton. But surely young men who amass huge arsenals of weapons, for whatever reason, must have some psychological similarities. 

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