(np) New Pope?

Wed Feb 13 17:04:18 CST 2013

In Jomo Kenyatta's book, Facing Mt. Kenya, he recounts that when Gikuyu children reached puberty they were allowed to avail themselves of a particular place to go experiment and play around with sex, boys and girls, to learn together.   Of course, we're talking about savages ...  

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
To: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:49 pm
Subject: Re: (np) New Pope?

Good questions both. I wonder about the first often. I wonder if appropriate sexual education couldn't be more successfully grafted into primary schools, so that kids could learn what is and is not appropriate outside the rumor mill. Could sex education be incremental instead of the "okay, here's how it's done, don't forget the rubbers" approach kids get now. There was a time it was up to parents, but they've never really been reliable communicators, have they? No one ever gave me the scoop. Had to learn it after the fashion of animals. Never mind the embarrassing moments.

I have known adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse who developed profoundly disturbing post-traumatic stress disorders on the margin of schizoid psychosis, so I think the child is directly affected with or without the input of others. Adults, on the other hand, well, I think you're right about that. Nothing like a like some of that ole time Stockholm syndrome touched off by a little hysteria to send a dreamer into a nightmare. I know it is a ghastly overgeneralization, but it seems a big problem in the West, that many of the students of spiritual leaders are vulnerable for whatever reason in the first place--the most common vulnerability being narcissistic personality issues. Those folks yearn for attention, and well, the rest is just kind of tragic, in an obscure way, where the hubris is really bound up with the hollow self. The resulting relationship to the teacher is really weird. I know of one woman who was studying under a Mahayanna nun who beat her regularly. When she tried to consult others about the beatings she met with the same attitude of it being bad juju to tell stories about the teacher out of class. She eventually got connected to a lawyer and the whole lineage had to pay a tidy sum of US dollars for the actions and the cover-up. Don't know what they do about such things now, but I doubt much has changed. It's an attitude built into the religion, and that's a part of what cured me of religion.

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net> wrote:

On 2/13/2013 11:31 AM, Ian Livingston      wrote:

Paul M says: Sex is such an enormously big deal in the      West--and seems to get bigger the more it is used to sell      products.  Zen comes in >from the East and sort of upsets the      applecart as it were.  Does anyone else wonder about all of this?      

Big in the West? India and China alone account nearly 1/3 of        the human population currently living on Earth. India being the        birthplace of Buddhism, and China the birthplace of Chan which        became Zen upon its walkabout to Japan. Seems to me they take        sex pretty seriously. The Japanese have some pretty wacky sex        trips going on. 

Sex is big in the West because anti-sex is big in the West.        The Puritans put the hex on sex with their biblical        insecurities, and the Catholics--well, as Zappa noted, Catholics        are notoriously horny, what can you say? I rather think it has        more to do with when and where people develop sufficient        emotional intelligence to differentiate between the need for a        good bowel movement or a better diet and the desire to ejaculate        that determines their susceptibility to sexual messages or        temptations. You can be a spiritual leader and still have little        emotional intelligence. Many Buddhist sangha, like their        Catholic counterparts, live apart from the other sex and the        cesspool of modern media from youth, before they have a chance        to develop any understanding of sex. They are naive and horny        and they have few defenses against their own impulses other than        prayer and masturbation. One must know the appetites before they        can control them. And then there's the latin gift of machismo,        according to which conviction it is better to have several        families with a number of different women than to suffer the        unmanly humiliation of sexual deprivation because of        inconvenient offspring.

    Good answer.

    Next question: What is to be done?  (in a non regulatory.    anarchistic manner)

    Second question:  Is the enormous damage done to children when    subjected to sexual activity (testified to by psychologists who    treat them) inherent in the the vulnerabilities in the  immature    human animal, or is it due in some significant part at least to the    attitudes of adults?  I  know I'm treading on dangerous ground    here.  

    Not to draw any kind of direct comparison, but I was struck by the    experiences of the women who were touched or asked for sexual favors    by their beloved zen teacher.  Much of the woe came after they    reported the unwanted contacts to others.  It turned out to be more    about the disrespect shown the master than about violation of the    student.  

    P

 (testified to by the psychologists who treat them        
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Paul          Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>          wrote:

On 2/13/2013 8:03 AM, Monte Davis wrote:

Not                        that the Times had contributed anything to the                        buildup of Joshu Sasaki: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/us/09zen.html

Several                        Mahayana teachers have been important to me over                        the years,  but there’s one lama I would never                        trust alone in a room with eclairs or cannoli.

                P

From:                        owner-pynchon-l at waste.org                        [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org]                        On Behalf Of Keith Davis
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:57 PM
                        To: David Morris
                        Cc: Markekohut; malignd at aol.com;                        pynchon-l at waste.org
                        Subject: Re: (np) New Pope?

How                      about this?
                      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/zen-buddhists-roiled-by-accusations-against-teacher.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130212

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:45                        PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>                        wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/opinion/the-pope-could-still-right-the-wrongs.html?ref=opinion

Still, Benedict has one                            last chance to right some of the wrongs of                            the recent past by forcing out Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the                            dean of the College of Cardinals and the man                            who, more than any other, embodies the                            misuse of power that has corrupted the                            church hierarchy.

[...]

But                            Cardinal Sodano ranks with the Los Angeles                            Cardinal Roger Mahony as an egregious                            practitioner of the cover up. As John Paul                            II’s secretary of state, he pressured                            Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope                            Benedict, in two notorious cases.

In                            1995, Cardinal Hans Hermann Groër resigned                            as archbishop of Vienna, trailed by                            accusations, soon proven, that he had abused                            young men. Cardinal Ratzinger wanted the                            pope to speak out; Cardinal Sodano overruled                            him.

Cardinal                            Sodano also pressured Cardinal Ratzinger to                            abort a case filed in 1998 by several men                            accusing the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado,                            founder of the Legionaries of Christ, of                            abusing them as seminarians. Cardinal Sodano                            was a longtime beneficiary of money and                            favors from Father Maciel. Priests who left                            the order told me he received at least                            $15,000 in cash.

He was                                        personally involved in                                        protecting pedophiles.  I hope                                        he rots.

                      -- 
                      www.innergroovemusic.com 

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