Discuss

[David Morris]

Agreed.  The whole Golem/Frankenstein story points out the limits of man's
mastery over nature, and unintended results from those efforts.


On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Well the They don't like and didn't program the rogue behavior and once
> you break from a program all bets are off  because the whole community of
> events and influences are so diverse and interactive with a new direction
> which has its own peculiar momentum.  I'm not saying behavioral
> conditioning ceases to apply but there are complications that increase with
> self awareness and competing programs and living in a complex biosphere and
> culture( In GR some competing programs are religious and political
> ideas,Tarot, angels, animal spirits, movies, the counterforce,
> sympathy/empathy). And ultimately there is fundamental unpredictability at
> a quantum level.
>
> To my mind behaviorism is fundamentally a tautological restatement of the
> mechanistic universe and a  frame of mind that ignores evidence that
> doesn't fit, or presumes that science will provide a mechanistic
> explanation for any anomalies. While this provides momentum for
> understanding mechanics, it risks being fundamentally flawed or self
> limiting and acting like clever ptolemaic cosmologists in a non ptolemaic
> universe.
> On Feb 15, 2013, at 9:07 AM, David Morris wrote:
>
> > By victimized, I mean programmed and manufactured for Their purposes.
>  So when he goes rogue, he is still acting or reacting according to that
> programming.
> >
> > On Thursday, February 14, 2013, Keith Davis wrote:
> > Excellent. So, we are also victimized, but we might stumble into, what?
> What are the powers that we might stumble into, or that might overtake us,
> or become available to us, if we stumble out of "their control"? What a
> great fucking book!
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 11:34 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > But remember, he was victimized.  So stumbling might not be so random.
>  He learned being controlled very early on.  It's when he slipped from
> their control, into The Zone, that They wanted him dead.  He was a loose
> golem, stumbling with new powers.
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, February 14, 2013, Keith Davis wrote:
> > Without reading the ending again, which is what has to happen to be
> clear about this, my impression is that Slothrop escaped from the idea of
> owning a personal identity, though it didn't have much to do with his
> making any effort to do so, it just happened organically as a result of the
> experiences he went through. Escaped isn't a good description. Fell from
> it? Leapt from it?
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> > Or could Slothrop be an everyman and a made up somebody at the very same
> time?
> > On Feb 13, 2013, at 6:00 PM, MalignD at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > In which case, none of us is a Slothrop in that none of us is a
> singular case.  We are all victims of the same experiment.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> > > To: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> > > Cc: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > > Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2013 11:42 am
> > > Subject: Re: Discuss
> > >
> > > Ours is the first generation in human history to be raised consuming
> petrochemicals in the midst of almost uninterrupted nuclear fallout. What
> makes you think you haven't been experimented upon is called denial in the
> psychoanalytic parlance.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > > On 2/12/2013 11:14 PM, Michael Bailey wrote:
> > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:47 PM,  <malignd at aol.com> wrote:
> > > We are not all the semi-famous Baby Tyrone who was handed over to be
> the
> > > subject of experimentation.  Certanly I wasn't.  You, I don 't know ...
> > >
> > > We are all experimented on as children.
> > >
> > > well, as a lad, my cousin experimented on me by putting my finger in a
> > > vise and tightening it until I got a blood blister.  Setting a
> > > lifelong pattern, I stood there amiably and bemusedly, almost savoring
> > > the feeling, until he tired of the experiment and opened the vise.
> > >
> > > Somehow our parents got word of it - I don't remember making a fuss -
> > > and he was administered gentle verbal correction -- another
> > > experiment, nobody knows how that sort of thing will turn out, but he
> > > grew up to be a kindly adult with whom I converse fearlessly.
> > >
> > >
> > > My younger sister once rendered me semiconscious swinging a stringed
> pupet around in the air.  Hard ceramic material of some sort. I never told
> on her of course.
> > >
> > > P
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.innergroovemusic.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.innergroovemusic.com
>
>
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