GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than...

[Mike Jing]

Thanks, David, I think you are right.  Now I just have to find a Chinese
equivalent.



On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:14 AM, David Payne <dpayne1912 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Depends on how you look at it.
>
> On the one hand, my definition was "faked/forced politeness". No ouroborus
> there.
>
> On the other hand, "grace" appears exactly 564 times on this page in the
> OED online.
>
> On the third hand, if you strip down the OED online definitions I quoted,
> "grace" only appears once, and I think that this single appearance points
> to the ironic use of the term I mentioned:
>
> * I.1.b. In a weaker sense: Seemliness, becomingness, favourable or
> creditable aspect.
>
> * I.2.c. A procedure, attitude, etc. adopted with a view to grace.
>
> I think that I.2.c. is the right definition here, and I think that it
> doesn't circle back on itself; instead it points back to a different
> meaning of the term "grace" (i.e., the traditional sense of internal,
> inherent angelic qualities), suggesting fake/forced politeness.
>
> If anyone else thinks I wrong, please speak up, because this seems like a
> key passage and I'm not at all sure that I correct in the way that I'm
> attempting to push forward Jochen's response.
>
> ________________________________
> > Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 22:52:51 -0600
> > Subject: RE: GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than...
> > From: irissiriustce at gmail.com
> > To: dpayne1912 at hotmail.com
> > CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >
> >
> > Mr. Payne, surely yourdictionary quote used the word "grace" fivive
> > fuckicking tim es to define Grace?
> >
> > This madness hass....toooooo....stop!
> >
> > you cant say I am bacause I am.. Within three words it circularizes on
> > itself.
> >
> > On Mar 4, 2013 10:30 PM, "David Payne"
> > <dpayne1912 at hotmail.com<mailto:dpayne1912 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > That's from the same page as the "Proverbs for Paranoids, 3" -- and
> > this seems like a key passage.
> >
> > It's a confusing sentence with all the "his/him"s.
> >
> > I take grace to mean faked/forced politeness here, which would be a bit
> > ironic because "grace" is supposed to be a natural characteristic. I
> > could be totally wrong about that because, as I said, I find the
> > sentence confusing.
> >
> > Anyhow, I'm looking at the OED online definition for:
> >
> > grace, n., I. Pleasing quality, gracefulness ... 2.c. A procedure,
> > attitude, etc. adopted with a view to grace. Obs. exc. in airs and
> > graces, affectations of elegance of manners.
> >
> > Although this would seem to fit just as well:
> >
> > grace, n., I. Pleasing quality, gracefulness ... 1.b. In a weaker
> > sense: Seemliness, becomingness, favourable or creditable aspect.
> > Chiefly in a good grace ; hence a bad grace , an ill grace , an
> > unbecoming appearance. Now somewhat rare (cf. cc).
> >
> > Don't take it from me, though! I'm just hoping to throw something out
> > that someone with better understanding can react to.
> >
> > Thanks for posing these questions, Mike. I enjoy this close reading.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, Mar 013 1::2::8 +100<
> > > Subject: Re: GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace
> than...
> > > From: jstremmel at gmail.com<mailto:jstremmel at gmail.com>
> > > To: gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com<mailto:gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com
> >
> > > CC: pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > >
> > > Gracefulness, I think.
> > >
> > > 013//// Mike Jing
> > <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com<mailto:gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>>:
> > > > P56..1--7 “Glad to hear it.” Slothrop is smiling. You’re on my list
> too,
> > > > pal. This smile asks from him more grace than anything in his languid
> > > > American life ever has, up till now. Grace he always imagined
> > himself short
> > > > on. But it’s working. He’s surprised, and so grateful that he
> > almost starts
> > > > crying then. The best part of all is not that Bounce appears fooled
> > by the
> > > > smile, but that Slothrop knows now that it will work for him again.
> . . .
> > > >
> > > > I find the word "grace" a little difficult to translate. what is the
> > > > primary meaning here?
> > > >
> >
>
>
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