GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than...

[Iris Sirius]

You think he' s right? Then why ask in the first place?  God homany
tarantulas of serantula do i have to smoke before any of you begin to make
sense?

"that makes sense, davie."

Really.  On what fucking planet?
On Mar 4, 2013 11:52 PM, "Mike Jing" <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, David, I think you are right.  Now I just have to find a Chinese
> equivalent.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:14 AM, David Payne <dpayne1912 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Depends on how you look at it.
>>
>> On the one hand, my definition was "faked/forced politeness". No
>> ouroborus there.
>>
>> On the other hand, "grace" appears exactly 564 times on this page in the
>> OED online.
>>
>> On the third hand, if you strip down the OED online definitions I quoted,
>> "grace" only appears once, and I think that this single appearance points
>> to the ironic use of the term I mentioned:
>>
>> * I.1.b. In a weaker sense: Seemliness, becomingness, favourable or
>> creditable aspect.
>>
>> * I.2.c. A procedure, attitude, etc. adopted with a view to grace.
>>
>> I think that I.2.c. is the right definition here, and I think that it
>> doesn't circle back on itself; instead it points back to a different
>> meaning of the term "grace" (i.e., the traditional sense of internal,
>> inherent angelic qualities), suggesting fake/forced politeness.
>>
>> If anyone else thinks I wrong, please speak up, because this seems like a
>> key passage and I'm not at all sure that I correct in the way that I'm
>> attempting to push forward Jochen's response.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> > Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 22:52:51 -0600
>> > Subject: RE: GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace than...
>> > From: irissiriustce at gmail.com
>> > To: dpayne1912 at hotmail.com
>> > CC: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> >
>> >
>> > Mr. Payne, surely yourdictionary quote used the word "grace" fivive
>> > fuckicking tim es to define Grace?
>> >
>> > This madness hass....toooooo....stop!
>> >
>> > you cant say I am bacause I am.. Within three words it circularizes on
>> > itself.
>> >
>> > On Mar 4, 2013 10:30 PM, "David Payne"
>> > <dpayne1912 at hotmail.com<mailto:dpayne1912 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > That's from the same page as the "Proverbs for Paranoids, 3" -- and
>> > this seems like a key passage.
>> >
>> > It's a confusing sentence with all the "his/him"s.
>> >
>> > I take grace to mean faked/forced politeness here, which would be a bit
>> > ironic because "grace" is supposed to be a natural characteristic. I
>> > could be totally wrong about that because, as I said, I find the
>> > sentence confusing.
>> >
>> > Anyhow, I'm looking at the OED online definition for:
>> >
>> > grace, n., I. Pleasing quality, gracefulness ... 2.c. A procedure,
>> > attitude, etc. adopted with a view to grace. Obs. exc. in airs and
>> > graces, affectations of elegance of manners.
>> >
>> > Although this would seem to fit just as well:
>> >
>> > grace, n., I. Pleasing quality, gracefulness ... 1.b. In a weaker
>> > sense: Seemliness, becomingness, favourable or creditable aspect.
>> > Chiefly in a good grace ; hence a bad grace , an ill grace , an
>> > unbecoming appearance. Now somewhat rare (cf. cc).
>> >
>> > Don't take it from me, though! I'm just hoping to throw something out
>> > that someone with better understanding can react to.
>> >
>> > Thanks for posing these questions, Mike. I enjoy this close reading.
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > > Date: Mon, Mar 013 1::2::8 +100<
>> > > Subject: Re: GR translation: This smile asks from him more grace
>> than...
>> > > From: jstremmel at gmail.com<mailto:jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> > > To: gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com<mailto:
>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> > > CC: pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> > >
>> > > Gracefulness, I think.
>> > >
>> > > 013//// Mike Jing
>> > <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com<mailto:gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>>:
>> > > > P56..1--7 “Glad to hear it.” Slothrop is smiling. You’re on my list
>> too,
>> > > > pal. This smile asks from him more grace than anything in his
>> languid
>> > > > American life ever has, up till now. Grace he always imagined
>> > himself short
>> > > > on. But it’s working. He’s surprised, and so grateful that he
>> > almost starts
>> > > > crying then. The best part of all is not that Bounce appears fooled
>> > by the
>> > > > smile, but that Slothrop knows now that it will work for him again.
>> . . .
>> > > >
>> > > > I find the word "grace" a little difficult to translate. what is the
>> > > > primary meaning here?
>> > > >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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