9-11 box cutters 11 september utility knives

[David Morris]

On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:

> Well the things I am talking about are not mystically unknowable



> Do you think the CIA torturers of Abu Graibh are going to eventually be
> punished? Do you think there was no fraud of a criminal nature at Morgan
> Stanley, that their defrauding was some special class of fraud that has no
> perpetrator or requires no human accountability, like jail time?


You confuse categories too often. Those crimes above are all well known.
Punishment or Justice are not the issue of secret plans.  Proof and courts
come after plausible and documentable plans. You want surmised evidence to
be counted as real because of the impossibility of its refutation.


> Justice is not automatic, not inherent, not inherited and not "revealed".
> People pay a price for the truth. People die for the truth.  People kill to
> keep it hidden.  You know that, and so does everyone here.
>
> If you wish to say you have looked at enough evidence to dismiss any idea
> of  deception  or that the truthers have not made a case sufficient to
> persuade you, simply say so. If you have information you think I should
> consider, point me to it.  But I cannot accept that there is something
> about 9-11 that makes it mystically unknowable more than any other crime.
> Nor do I think that deceptions are inevitably revealed through mistakes.
>  Sometimes people get away with murder, fraud, theft and every other
> sociopathic act and retire "comfortably".  The Reich was not caught until
> it was far too late. Stalin was never stopped. He just wore out and died.
>
> On Nov 26, 2013, at 7:27 PM, David Morris wrote:
>
> > All of the things on the list below involve deceptions that were
> revealed. None were mystically unknowable.  Each below came to light almost
> inevitably by the inherent inability of people to not fuck up in their
> deceits somewhere along the way.  But some conspiracies are forever
> unknowable because the knowable wont be enough for some, ever.
> >
> > On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> > , but I look at what was done secretly in the 3rd reich, I look at
> Vietnam and Iraq , I look at Chile or Greece or Venezuela or Brazil. I see
> the long trail of of imperial madness and capitalist madness and colonial
> madness and organized crime and I think it wise to be skeptical.
> >
> > On Nov 26, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> >
> > > You are also wrong in your overgeneralized characterization of the
> plist members who differ with you and how they differ.  I, for one, resent
> it and have just deleted a longer post.
> > >
> > > "reactionary" arguments?.....a politicization akin to Fox News'...
> > >
> > > I
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On Nov 25, 2013, at 3:32 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > To believe that a group who fabricated lies to murder over half a
> million Iraqis  and in so doing sacrificed over 5000 soldiers and left many
> thousands wounded all in order to seize control of their oil would balk at
> killing some Americans to get what they want is to think that Americans are
> different than humans through most of history.
> > > >
> > > > This whole proposition is nothing more than the idea that anyone who
> thinks airplane engines  and wings disappear when they hit buildings is
> uncritical. Or that anyone who dares to question a media and political
> leadership notorious for lying is uncritical.
> > > >
> > > > The official inquiriies into 9-11 i are not, as suggested  in the
> article, unanimous,  in fact a commission chairman resigned in protest that
> and there are several instances where whistleblowers like Colleen Rowley
> and Sibel Edmonds were punished and those they exposed were promoted. That
> kind of example is bound to  skew the results.
> > > >
> > > > It is not as though we live in a time of outstanding courage in
> challenging the lies of authoritarian systems. This is clear from
>  thousands of NSA people who dared not speak out like Snowden did .
> > > >
> > > > The language of "these people" and "the rest of us" is the language
> of demagoguery .  His argument  is str-
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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