BE as P's attempt at Greek New Comedy

[Rich Clavey]

I think a more apt comparison would be Mervyn Peake's late Titus Alone compared to Titus Groan and Gormenghast.
Rich


________________________________
 From: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
To: "“pynchon-l at waste.org“" <pynchon-l at waste.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: BE as P's attempt at Greek New Comedy
 


BE reads like it was written by late stage Stephen King




On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

Like.
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>
>On Oct 8, 2013, at 8:07 AM, Heikki Raudaskoski <hraudask at sun3.oulu.fi> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 383 pages in, I have the growing feeling that a work by Pynchon finally
>> meets the totalizing "requirements" Jameson set for postmodernism
>> decades ago:
>>
>> - the waning of affect
>> - blank and lukewarm pastiching
>> - the abolition of critical distance
>> - the all-pervasiveness of late capitalism with no space for opposition
>>
>>
>> Heikki
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Fiona Shnapple wrote:
>>> but P has Jameson out again here.
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 7, 2013, John Bailey wrote:
>>>> I think this is the first time P has used the term late capitalism. I
>>>> haven't heard it outside the classroom myself, which made it stand
>>>> out.
>>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Fiona Shnapple <fionashnapple at gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Another question: did Pynchon use the term late-capitalism in IV or in
>>>> prior
>>>>> novels? Been thinking about what Robin said about the Left Content in
>>>> this
>>>>> novel. I happened to be quite fond of a lady who may win the Nobel for
>>>>> prosecuting a certain individual who is guilty of genocide with products
>>>>> made in the USA.  How's that for a female heroine fucking a fascist?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is so much in the narrative drift of this book that point to such
>>>>> people, both the sinister and evil bastards who murder and waste life,
>>>> and
>>>>> those who fight them, protect the oppressed, resist the greeeed, the
>>>>> guzzling SUVs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So GTA, like so many Video Games is the topic of study in classes where
>>>>> Jameson is read.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think this is Game Over. That's not how I read it.
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You know what these things mean FS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Fiona Shnapple <fionashnapple at gmail.com<javascript:;>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> John, I'd like to respond, but you lost me, so, if you don't mind,
>>>> some
>>>>>>> basic questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the old Greek comedy? What is the new Greek comedy?
>>>>>>> What is a Coover take?
>>>>>>> What is close third person?  I looked this last one up and was not
>>>>>>> convinced
>>>>>>> that the definition provided is what you have in mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, October 7, 2013, John Bailey wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm increasingly wondering if the new novel isn't Pynchon's conscious
>>>>>>>> attempt to write a New Comedy, in contrast to the Old Comedy that
>>>> most
>>>>>>>> of his work can be aligned with. Or, if we're going to get more
>>>>>>>> detailed, with the Menippean Satire that some have convincingly
>>>> argued
>>>>>>>> is his forte. But I'm sticking with the Old/New divide of the Greeks
>>>>>>>> for the moment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would perhaps explain why this one jars so much for so many. It's
>>>>>>>> sitcom, not systems analysis, and when it gives us types (Jewish
>>>>>>>> American, African American, Italian American) it doesn't do so in the
>>>>>>>> obviously ironic way his earlier works did. It doesn't give us the
>>>>>>>> linguistic miracles that offer a way out of the existential morass in
>>>>>>>> the manner we're used to P providing. It tries to offer characters
>>>>>>>> we're supposed to care for, which is antithetical to Old Comedy, even
>>>>>>>> if that mode is a more compassionate one on a structural level. BE
>>>>>>>> leaves us with mere people, individuals, not even a hint of the
>>>>>>>> preterite, which is interesting and a problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Coover take on 2001-02 would look more like what we could have
>>>>>>>> expected from Bleeding Edge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why, in both IV and BE, has Pynchon returned to close third person
>>>>>>>> narration (with at least one exception in BE that I've noticed?) It's
>>>>>>>> not What He Does. Not even in Vineland. He toyed with it in COL49 but
>>>>>>>> then declared it a minor work. Why go back there?
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>-
>Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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