Anderson, Master, IV,

[David Morris]

Some beliefs should be revisited and revised, and done so on a daily basis.
The ideal "means" of revision? If overwhelming force is included in this
list of means, I would opt for its opposite, no coercion, internally
motivated.  But forces are always bearing down in earthly existence, so the
opposite is not possible. Beyond that, the motivation for personal  drastic
change of world view, belief, is the stuff of Fiction.

David Morris

On Friday, December 5, 2014, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

>  I think what you are saying is profound and has very large implications.
> I am reading Taoist and similar Chinese writing and was just reading today
> about the importance of a kind of original Jing or human essence and the
> benefits in early cultivation of that life force toward a long and peaceful
> life.
>  After WW 2 the US military did a study and found that many soldiers(
> something like 70%) never were able to use their weapons in combat due to
> the natural aversion to taking human life. ( This seems to me a deeply
> encouraging counter argument to the war comes from human nature idea)They
> changed their training for Vietnam and got better killers but more PTSD.  (
> any refinements/revisions of the historic part of this are welcome)
>   What is perhaps a weird new element of the formation of early beliefs is
> the role of television,  peer group schooling, news media as arbiters of
> social reality and values.  Pynchon, it seems to me, is particularly
> focused on this early formative process.
>
>  Some beliefs deserve  revision, and so for me the question is about the
> the means of revision. Overwhelming force is not what I think of when I
> think of positive inner transitions.
>
> > Brains can be seriously fucked, and that happens most when an
> overwhelming force is used to break down a belief, not to instill one.
> Deprogramming is the real enemy.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > According to the article suggested by T Eckhart The original physician
> on the scene at the Jonestown massacre Chief Guyanese physician  Dr.
> MooToo, trained in Vienna and London claimed that at least 700 of the
> victims were murdered- injected in the back of their shoulder with poison.
> The first report of mass suicide came from the CIA and the story of mass
> suicide was shaped by a psychiatrist named Sukhdeo.
> >
> > " It is true, of course, that not every psychiatrist agreed with Dr.
> Sukhdeo's analysis.  Dr. Stephen P. Hersh,  then assistant director of the
> National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH), commented that "The charges of
> brainwashing are clearly exaggerated.  The concept of  'thought control' by
> cult leaders is elusive, difficult to define and even more difficult to
> prove.  Because cult converts adopt beliefs that seem bizarre to their
> families and friends, it does not follow that their choices are being
> dictated by cult leaders." [37]
> >
> > On Dec 2, 2014, at 10:15 PM, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > > I object to the segment in The Master when Freddie is being
> brainwashed. It doesn't ring true.  Brainwashing is mostly a myth used as a
> cudgel to legitimized anti-brainwashing, which DOES exist. True converts
> are not coerced.
> >
> > All this to say that while I deeply agree with your skepticism about the
> concept of brainwashing, brains can be seriously fucked with as this nation
> should know since by the time of shock and awe a poll showed 70% of
> Americans believed Saddam to be part of the  9/11plot.
> > >
> > > David Morris
> > >
> > > On Monday, December 1, 2014, Thomas Eckhardt <
> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > Am 01.12.2014 18:00, schrieb Joseph Tracy:
> > >
> > > Just to push the
> > > conversation a bit- is it such a stretch to consider CIA/Political
> > > actions and media messages in Vietnam, Cambodia, Chile, Argentina,
> > > El Salvador...  as a kind of cultic message of liberation, in this
> > > case through mass violence.
> > >
> > > Hmmm, reminds me of the strange coincidence that Jim Jones, of Peoples
> Temple and Kool-Aid fame, and Dan Mitrione, a man who used to torture
> beggars to death for training purposes, were childhood friends.
> > >
> > > http://jimhougan.com/JimJones2.html
> > >
> > > Thomas
> > >
> > > -
> > > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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