NP - Krugman: Petrothoughts (Via Kevin Drom)

Tue Dec 16 20:45:42 CST 2014

But, Thomas, let me offer an olive branch, the one that now covers my
ignorance. I only personally have experienced US politics. I don't know
close up any European local politics. The US is a huge area of extremely
diverse politics that have been squeezed forcibly and historically into
just two viable political parties.  I dream of a US parliament that will
never be.  So, in some ways maybe your local schisms are more potent,
because they occupy smaller, distinct physical/cultural turfs right up
close to each other. So I admit to you a limited perspective.

David

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Resolution 758 is a statement against Russia's annexing Eastern Ukraine.
> Any further analysis is nitpicking. List the lies if you want.  Bottom
> line, the invasion was not justified by any real threat to anyone. It was a
> Putin PR stunt for a rabid home audience (fascism, anyone?).  That
> Russian audience yurns for its former greatness, which was always an
> illusion, except in the Arts, in which they excell.  Free Pussy Riot!
>
> If you can condemn an entire government by its right wing, neo-nazi
> component, then the US should top your list.  Our Tea Party is essentially
> racist, xenophobic, and idiotic, with a nationalist red,white&blue
> decorative styling. You suffer from an extreme fear of Naziism, and are
> willing to excuse almost anything in its opposition.
>
> Sincerely,
> David Morris
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 16, 2014, Thomas Eckhardt <
> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de');>> wrote:
>
>>  David Morris wrote:
>>
>> > It is amazing how consistently you seem to endorse Russia's
>> > invasion of the Ukraine. Opposing that move is hardly the opposite
>> > of "reproachment."
>>
>> The word the author of the article you quoted from used was
>> "rapprochement":
>>
>> "A Russian crash may or may not come, but it's hardly out of the realm of
>> possibility. And if it happens, even a modest rapprochement between East
>> and West could help avoid a disastrous outcome."
>>
>> What he is saying is that it might just make sense to de-escalate and
>> have some talks before starting WW III. Sounds sensible to me.
>>
>> Resolution 758 however -- which is full of lies, unproven allegations
>> (MH-17, anyone?) and deliberate distortions of the truth -- amounts to a
>> declaration of war. Blaming Russia for everything and providing lethal
>> weapons etc. to the Ukrainian government *is* the opposite of
>> rapprochement. That was my point.
>>
>> I am not endorsing Russian support for the rebels  but I can understand
>> the motives behind it. Russia reacts to what it perceives as an existential
>> threat.
>>
>> > Opposing Russia's invasion of the Ukraine is not an endorsement of
>> > fascism, either, as much as you have tried to play that card. Putin
>> > is as fascist as they come, despite his Soviet trappings.
>>
>> Guess what, tiring as it may be for you, I'll just "play that card" again:
>>
>> --
>>
>> "Moreover, some of the new MPs are not just far right but actual
>> neo-Nazis. Take Andriy Biletsky, elected in a single-member district in
>> Kiev with support from the People' s Front party led by Arseniy Yatseniuk.
>> Biletsky was the head of an openly racist Patriot of Ukraine group which
>> was involved in hate crimes against minorities, and later formed the core
>> of the infamous Azov volunteer battalion, which uses neo-Nazi symbolism. He
>> was celebrated as commander of the Azov battalion and assigned to the rank
>> of lieutenant colonel in the police."
>>
>>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/13/ukraine-far-right-fascism-mps
>>
>> About Andriy Biletsky:
>>
>> ' The historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead
>> the White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival,â he
>> wrote in a recent commentary. â A crusade against the Semite-led
>> Untermenschen.'
>>
>>
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
>>
>> --
>>
>> 'Biletsky is not the only neo-Nazi recently appointed to law enforcement
>> bodies. In October, Vadym Troyan, another Patriot of Ukraine member and
>> deputy commander of the Azov battalion, was appointed as the head of the
>> police in Kiev Oblast province. A Kharkov human rights group called it a â
>> disastrous appointmentâ . At the same time, another infamous extreme right
>> politician from the Svoboda party Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, who once promoted
>> Joseph Goebbelsâ A Little ABC of National Socialism and the 25-point NSDAP
>> Program, will head up propaganda and analysis in the Security Service of
>> Ukraine."'
>>
>>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/13/ukraine-far-right-fascism-mps
>>
>> 'Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a "period of light
>> in history".'
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The efforts of the Government to safeguard the
>> territorial integrity of Ukraine and restore law and order in the
>> conflict zone have been accompanied
>> by arbitrary detentions, torture, and enforced disappearances of people
>> suspected of â separatism
>> and terrorismâ . Most of such human rights violations appear to have been
>> perpetrated by certain voluntary battalions
>> or by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU)."
>>
>>
>> http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/OHCHR_eighth_report_on_Ukraine.pdf
>>
>> Neo-Nazi death squads, in other words. The "voluntary battalions" are the
>> spearhead of the so-called anti-terror operation of the government in Kiev.
>> Which we support.
>>
>> --
>> Etc. etc.
>> --
>>
>> You want to give weapons, military advice and intelligence support to
>> these people? Why on earth would you want to do that? And how does that not
>> entail a partial endorsement of the worst kind of fascism?
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
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