Horst-Maxine-Windust

[alice malice]

Who ain't to blame? Right? We all just a bunch of dollar diggers dumping
all our shit on the rest of the world.  Horst should quit his job, repent,
go live in a monastery or a commune. But that ain't in the book.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 7:05 PM, <bandwraith at aol.com> wrote:

> Horst is no more guilty than Windust. They both share in the blame for 11
> Sept.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com>
> To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Sun, Feb 23, 2014 5:24 pm
> Subject: Re: Horst-Maxine-Windust
>
>
>
> If anyone in this novel resembles Vibe, it is Ice, not Horst. Horst cheats
> on his wife. Infidelity is not a crime in NYC. She's no Mother Maxina. The
> family is, fairly typical of the UWS,  it functions in a dysfunctional
> world. That Horst, according to Maxine, once put his hands around her
> throat and choked her, and that he still loses it over trivial shit like
> the missing Chunky Monkey ice cream, is all I can find in the novel to make
> him less than Pynchon's most sympathetic characters. Dixon, for example, is
> far from perfect. His abuse of the females is not excused by his whipping
> of the slave driver. Slothrop's, Zoyd, the list goes on. Horst is a good
> father, a decent guy. And, again, his skill, luck, independence, and great
> fortune, are matched against he neo liberals, neo techs, the brave new
> world that has taken his trade, his job. So, again, he is more like the
> author than Max, who is, subjected to the harshest satire. She bends and
> takes Windust through her torn hoes. Like Frenesi on her knees. Horst is on
> a different vibe.
> On Sunday, February 23, 2014, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Alice, with all due respect,  I can withdraw my two lines supposedly
> summing up my view of Wall Street and the argument ( within the fiction)
> still stands.....my 'associative', descriptive leap " to the 1%"---simple
> fact re Horst; drop the Occupy resonances if you want, ....and the niceness
> of Wall Streeters is just a tail. " Niceness was to pickup on Morris's
> good-heartedness and simply to
> Say many of the very rich can be very " nice"....
>
>
> I brought out some textual NotNicenesses earlier.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 2:25 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> With all due respect,your view of "wall street" is superficial and
> distorted and so the conclusions you draw are ridiculous.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, Horst makes money.....a 'wonderful' quality in all of TRP's
> fiction....one of his deep authorial thematic identifications. THIS IS
> SARCASM.
>
> Rich Horst cheated on Maxine. Rich Horst seems to have left Maxine with
> little (but the 'house") as they say.
>
> Horst can seem to sense where the money will be....like Jay Gould? Or a
> Vibe?
>
> Watching bad TV is TRP's way of saying he is his culture, mindless, with
> an "inhuman"---[in the sense his skill
> happens without much interaction with human beings...he doesn't make
> anything, create anything--even a 'team"]
> skill for getting rich. He is the 1%, with an overt "niceness"---why
> shouldn't he be? He is Wall Street.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:44 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> He is a very sympathetic character in BE.  He seems almost pure hearted.
>  He watches bad TV, but makes tons of dough. What reader wouldn't want to
> be in his shoes? Would that we could be so lucky.
>
> On Saturday, February 22, 2014, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> What? Don't like Horst? Why? He has money? He trades commodities? Nothing
> wrong with his job, right? He's an independent craftsman.  He's good. Real
> good. Nothing wrong with that. What? He seems like a good guy. There is
> that temper. That's not good. He gets violent with Maxine. But other than
> that, the novel pits him against the computer and the new kids on the
> block, and he gains our approval. Right.
>
> On Saturday, February 22, 2014, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Wrong.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 22, 2014, at 9:53 AM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Horst does not adopt the new technologies that have all but
>>
> buggy-whipped the traders in Chicago and in NYC by the time he moves to
> NYC.  He takes a sublet in the tower not because he has finally given in to
> computer trading but because he wants to keep at his old craft trade as
> long as possible. He is, as he says, a dinosaur. As he says, the computer
> trading has taken over and he can do his job anywhere now, but he wants to
> trade the old way. Though the trading pits in the building of Lower
> Manhattan are on the lover floors, Horst takes a sublet at the top. These
> floors have been relegated to the old world traders, guys and gals who
> trade bonds and act as dealers for UST Securities, so Cantor Fitzgerald the
> Firm hardest hit on September the 11th. The novel clearly sides with Horst
> and his craft. His magic, his luck and fortune, not unlike the author's
> own, is set against, not entangled in the computer traded world that allies
> itself with the neo-liberalism of Windust.
>
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> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
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