JFK and the Unspeakable
malignd at aol.com
malignd at aol.com
Mon Jan 13 21:03:58 CST 2014
and the cuckoo pops out of your forehead.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: JFK and the Unspeakable
Why don't you actually say something you chicken shit asshole. You have never
said anything of your own. You are a boring malignancy. Guess what big brain,
Oliver Stone has made more than one film. What have you done lately?
On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:28 PM, MalignD at aol.com wrote:
> Sentence one is Japan. Sentence two, Oliver Stone's "artistic" output,
despite his film being completely wrong in its hypothesis. Sentence three, if
Oliver Stone were on the p-list!. Sentence four, Jim Douglas is worth reading
because he's not Oliver Stone who, one assumes, would not be worth reading
(despite his artistic output and were he a writer). Sentence five, which
ignores the four-sentence preamble, instead makes a claim for what is "just
pretty fucking obvious." Sentence six -- which is that the President is a pawn
of the security state. Sentence seven "there's a hole in (your?) big brother's
arm ..." for which I'll have to take your word.
> Japan has faced its crimes far more deeply than the US. No one on the p-list
has
> remotely rivaled Oliver Stones artistic output or skill though the JFK focus
on
> Jim Garrison was a mistake. If Stone was on the p-list I doubt he would be
> treated with dismissal. Anyway Jim Douglas is not Oliver Stone and the book
is
> worth reading. The problem is pretty fucking obvious and it isn't in ancient
> history. The president is a pawn played by the national security state.
There's
> hole in big brother's arm where the money and the power goes and pretending
> won't make it go away.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Mon, Jan 13, 2014 1:29 am
> Subject: Re: JFK and the Unspeakable
>
> Japan has faced its crimes far more deeply than the US. No one on the p-list
has
> remotely rivaled Oliver Stones artistic output or skill though the JFK focus
on
> Jim Garrison was a mistake. If Stone was on the p-list I doubt he would be
> treated with dismissal. Anyway Jim Douglas is not Oliver Stone and the book
is
> worth reading. The problem is pretty fucking obvious and it isn't in ancient
> history. The president is a pawn played by the national security state.
There's
> hole in big brother's arm where the money and the power goes and pretending
> won't make it go away.
>
> On Jan 12, 2014, at 6:56 PM, Rich wrote:
>
> > Japan hasn't really fessed up to the war. Ask the Chinese or the Koreans
> >
> > Didn't realize we had Oliver Stone on the plist. You're smarter than that
man
> c'mon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, Joseph Tracy <
> brook7 at sover.net
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I disagree. It matters. It is about a point of departure, and it is
precisely
> because there was this challenge to and defiance of the prevailing myth that
it
> matters. It is critical that we have a line that can't be crossed and crimes
> that must be faced just as Germany and Japan have faced their crimes. Kennedy
> represents a point where the peacemaking that is currently deemed by the
> dominant culture to be unspeakable became both speakable and persuasively
> refreshing. Kennedy was loved and the love was growing and changing the
culture.
> His death was not a meaningless accident. Not a paranoid fantasy. Even the
most
> cursory look at the assassination unleashes a flood of official denial, lies,
> manipulations, and non-credible coincidences that demand that we simply
refuse
> the official story. The narrative which the CIA tried to erase returns again
and
> again and all the evidence functions as an Occam's razor to point to the CIA
as
> the center of a successful plot to shift power away from elected leaders to an
> empire of secretive alliances between military, industrial, resource
extraction
> and investment forces. Civilian and democratic oversight died with Kennedy.
The
> only challenge to that was Carter who was easily relegated to one term and was
> still the vector of Breszinski's tenure as manager of imperial agenda.
> >>
> >> When you speak of thought crimes you relegate yourself to a cage which only
> you have the lock or key for.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 8:21 AM, Martha Rooster-Singh wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Douglas doesn't have to prove that the CIA killed JFK. It doesn't much
> matter at this point. In fact, I question why bring the assassination into it?
> It only muddies the waters. The obvious reason is that he wants to show us
how
> we got to this point from 1960. If we agree with his assessment of where
things
> are and how things got to be as they are, the assassination is only a
> distraction. The unspeakable now is not the assassinations. And JFK's
> assassination, if you think the CIA killed him and the others, was only one of
> several unspeakable murders. The unspeakable is not nuclear war with the
> Soviets. This is not 1960. But the counter to unspeakable violence has not
> changed. Peace is still unspeakable. The kind of world JFK described in the
> University Speech is, in 2014, unspeakable. It is a thought crime. You can't
> even think it.
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, January 12, 2014, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> >>> The reek of conspiracy is deep and the obvious center is the CIA. What
> becomes clear is why. And how they had so many allies or sympathizers that
they
> could be pretty certain they would get away with it. The continuous growth of
> the Military industrial complex and the power of intelligence agencies along
> with the erosion of civil liberties points to the fundamental success of a
coup.
> The degree and depth of Kennedy's embrace of an alternate vision to the cold
> war( which he seemed to foresee as the beginning of a permanent state of war)
is
> made evident by Douglas through Kennedy's speeches and conversations with his
> few friends and allies.
> >>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Yeah, the CIA did it.
> >>>> Read Bugliosi's book as well.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Friday, January 10, 2014 10:20 PM, Joseph Tracy <
> brook7 at sover.net
> >
> wrote:
> >>>> Starting into Jim Douglas's book, JFK and the Unspeakable. I didn't know
he
> was part of the Catholic worker movement and had written mostly as a Christian
> pacifist. So far the prose and organization of information is engaging and
> substantive. As he tracks Kennedy's confrontation with the Military and CIA he
> also follows the contemporaneous work of Thomas Merton to confront the immoral
> essence of nuclear military power( while being obedient to church
authorities).
> The phrase ' the unspeakable' was used by Merton to describe the mentality
and
> unscrupulous behavior of those who have accustomed themselves to enormous
power
> and will do anything to retain it.
> >>>> Just the clarity with which he tracks the postwar rise of the national
> security state gives the book a rare quality. He is not trying to be
inductive,
> but sets out his contention from the start, provides a timeline and begins to
> fill in the JFK timeline with asides to examine the parallel peace work of
> Thomas Merton.
> >>>> Other works on the JFK assassination seem to get whelmed in competing
> theories, players, elaborate timelines, scientific issues, etc. Douglas sets
> out to detail the motives of the CIA and to elaborate how the CIA planned and
> covered up the assassination, as though he were a prosecutor making a case.
> >>>>
> >>>> What gives the book an added power is the concept of what is
> unspeakable,and how even when overwhelming evidence points to a reality, there
> are realities that remain unspeakable. The article on holocaust film footage
> also deals with the phenomenon. Pynchon spends much of his energy as a writer
> bringing us into proximity to unspeakable parts of human experience. He backs
us
> into it with jokes and wonders, coincidences and seedy lost souls, lists, and
> the inevitable force of history. But it is that feeling of scraping up against
> the raw madness that compels one to think and speak about the unthinkable and
> unspeakable.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -
> >>>> Pynchon-l /
> http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> Pynchon-l /
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>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l /
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