What happens to a conspiracy revealed?

Mon Mar 10 16:07:35 CDT 2014

all i'm saying is I dont expect them to act in a moral fashion. the
evidence is overwhelming, this senseless cruelty of the human race. feeling
outraged isnt all that hard to understand in many cases. But it's not
always easy in this grey world we live in. no one feels comfortable taking
the govts word for things but I feel they arent always wrong and that there
are probably good explanations for the things they do in many cases.

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:31 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Sure, countries have their reasons. Why judge them? If British
> intelligence thinks they've spotted an al Qaeda cell in my neighborhood,
> and accidentally drops a bomb on my house, why judge them? Hey, it was a
> judgment call. Average people around the world have good reasons for doing
> what they do. Why judge them for murder, for rape, for torturing babies?
> They have their reasons. Who are we to judge? Law is a ridiculous
> imposition of some people's morality on someone else. Why even bother with
> it?
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rich
> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 3:05 PM
> To: kelber
> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>
> when you know they have been or are actively engaged in planning terrorist
> operations like Awalaki? i have no problem with that frankly. russians have
> been doing it so has iran iraq, the UK, Israel, etc. thats what cover ops
> is about. is it moral? can we judge what countries do in moral terms? i'm
> not so sure
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:47 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> It is all out in the open. See: Jeremy Scahill's book (or documentary
>> version) Dirty Wars. That was my original point: it doesn't change anything
>> when these clandestine activities are aired.
>>
>> So, Rich, when the US perceives someone's rhetoric as a threat, it's OK
>> to go into whatever country houses them and murder them, collateral damage
>> be damned? I assume then, that this response is also OK for Russia, for
>> Iran, for North Korea, etc.?
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rich
>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 2:33 PM
>> To: Monte Davis
>> Cc: kelber
>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>
>> u expect all this to be out in the open? all we can hope for is proper
>> oversight. and I do trust our current President on this.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, Laura, that's classified. As is the process by which the
>>> decisions were made. As is the modified revised extended FISA protocol by
>>> which you will be put under surveillance -- well, *more* surveillance -- if
>>> you keep asking.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:59 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which were warranted?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rich
>>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 1:45 PM
>>>> To: kelber
>>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>>
>>>> some of those "murders" were warranted. just saying
>>>> Look, I get the concern here but I also think that total transparency
>>>> is just as dangerous. Not sure the snowdens and assanges really get that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:33 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Acceptance from the right-wing is a given. It's harder to take from
>>>>> people, politicians and newspapers who present themselves as thoughtful and
>>>>> socially progressive.
>>>>>
>>>>> LK
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Monte Davis
>>>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 1:25 PM
>>>>> To: kelber
>>>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>>>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Casual acceptance, hell -- rousing ovations! Check out Charlie
>>>>> Pierce's coverage of star speakers at CPAC over the last few days:  Ollie
>>>>> North, Scooter Libby, Bernard Kerik...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/crooks-at-cpac-2014-030714
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What happens when a conspiracy is revealed to the public? Not much.
>>>>>> What about anything has changed since Snowden's revelations? The shadowy
>>>>>> group journalist Jeremy Scahill was investigating, Joint Strategic
>>>>>> Operations Command - responsible for thousands of covert murders across the
>>>>>> globe - was revealed and publicly lauded in the midst of Scahill's
>>>>>> investigation. What happened? Nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today, another conspiracy is cheerfully reported in the NY Times in
>>>>>> the guise of a story about business prowess:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/business/staking-1-billion-that-herbalife-will-fail-then-ackman-lobbying-to-bring-it-down.html?hp&_r=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which leads to the question: is it still a conspiracy if it's
>>>>>> completely out in the open? Isn't the excitement of delving into a
>>>>>> conspiracy the stray hope: "once people find out about this ..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure that Pynchon answers this fully in any of his books. Sure,
>>>>>> he points to a lot of tips of icebergs and facades: industry as the front
>>>>>> for something much more sinister, on an almost metaphysical plane. We
>>>>>> understand that his "They," while they may have specific servants, don't
>>>>>> exist in any tangible form. Can't un-elect them, can't storm their
>>>>>> chateaux. But the problem is, when "They" get too metaphysical, they start
>>>>>> blending in with the metaphysical scenery - God, Nature, The Universe, Fate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what would happen if the really sinister characters were
>>>>>> revealed? If there was a complete analysis of Scarsdale Vibe's or Brock
>>>>>> Vond's doings on the front page of the paper of record, and it was treated
>>>>>> as a celebration of ingenuity, rather than an indictment or a
>>>>>> history-changing moment? To me, this is scarier than any "They" in
>>>>>> Pynchon's writings, because this is really happening today here in our
>>>>>> world. Pynchon's always known about these people. We all have. It's the
>>>>>> casual acceptance of them that comes as a shock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
>
>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20140310/d086c5f0/attachment.html>