Putin's Counter Revolution

[David Morris]

Agreed.

On Sunday, March 16, 2014, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> The US and Europe have different relationships with Russia. Basically, the
> US has little relationship, other than one of enmity. Europe gets much, if
> by no means all of its natural gas from Russia. The EU isn't necessarily
> going to play lapdog to the US (what with its NSA spying, and all).
> Frankly, the US has zero reason to get enmeshed in this at all, aside from
> its general military-industrial designs on the world, and some pissed off
> feelings about Snowden and Syria and that Russian ice-skater. Even a total
> Russian occupation of the Ukraine would not be the first step to some
> Hitler-like putsch, regardless of what the neo-con hysterics want people to
> believe, nor would it endanger the citizens of the US in any way. I sure as
> fuck wouldn't send my kids to fight for the sovereignity of the Ukraine.
> Anyone who doesn't think it's a cause worth their kids or grandkids or
> nieces and nephews dying for, should probably take a deep breath and get on
> with their lives.
>
> Laura
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >Sent: Mar 16, 2014 10:11 PM
> >To: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> >Cc: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >Subject: Re: Putin's Counter Revolution
> >
> >Yeah, The U.S. cannot even try to get the nations of the world to act in
> concert under principles of international law because IT--the US --was,
> --is,--a sinner.
> >
> >Weird, man. Weird.
> >
> >
> >
> >Sent from my iPad
> >
> >On Mar 16, 2014, at 7:31 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Curtis Lemay is not a talk show host, but I don't recall making such a
> comparison before at all, let alone on a regular basis and I was talking
> about your atomic weapons theory which sounds nuts to me. Still I should
> have held my tongue with personal comparisons. I apologize, and don't want
> to start an insult war. Obviously this Ukraine thing seems very morally
> clear to you and it doesn't to me.
> >> I just think it is in everyone's best interest if it doesn't become a
> war which will result in more suffering than any promised deliverance.
> >>  If Russia should be punished shouldn't the US be punished over the
>  Iraq invasion which looks about a million times worse to me if you compare
> the offenses by the loss of human life.
> >>  From my POV we are being at least as aggressive as Russia. Why is is
> it the US's place to propitiate a coup and appoint the interim leader?
> >> As far as punishing Russia, they could punish right back, and kick off
> some serious economic repercussions
> >> If the Ukraine is so sovereign maybe they should solve their own
> economic problems instead of bouncing back and forth between sugar daddies.
>  Oh Russia I love it when you do me with all that sweet crude. Oh EU and Mr
> America, you have such a big manly banking system.
> >>
> >> Yes I am an idealist if by that you mean an advocate of democratic or
> consensus based  peaceable conflict resolution. I don't regard it as
> realistic to bully and bomb people and expect good to come from it.
> >>
> >> On Mar 16, 2014, at 3:34 PM, alice malice wrote:
> >>
> >>> My reading of it is honest and is supported by the facts and by
> >>> history. You are naive and idealistic.  Anytime someone here shows you
> >>> the facts you call them a right wing talk show host. Why is that?
> >>> Can't you argue the facts? The agreement that Russia signed was not
> >>> nullified by the change in government. Ukraine is a sovereign state
> >>> and was promised protection if it surrendered the weapons. Putin
> >>> violated the agreement. Now he will have to pay the price. How is that
> >>> a right wing position? Should thugs like Putin be allowed to threaten
> >>> their neighbors? Is this what Left Wingers support? No. The world
> >>> needs to defend Ukraine. Not because it has a government we admire or
> >>> hope to see succeed, but because Russia is threatening the peace and
> >>> Putin must pay a price for his aggression.  This is a sensible and
> >>> logical approach, the one most likely to be implemented.
> >>> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> wrote:
> >>>> The agreement was made with an elected government that is gone. What
> they have there in Ukraine was made up last week.  Your theory is nutty
> anyway , just utterly paranoid true believer armageddon stuff . You sound
> like Rush Limbaugh or Curtis LeMay.
> >>>> On Mar 16, 2014, at 12:23 PM, alice malice wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> They will. Of course they will. The spread can't be stopped. Brasil
> is
> >>>>> deep into it. Who or what wil threaten there interests and security
> >>>>> in the future is hard to say, but we can be sure that it will happen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The logic is supported by history. Read that chapter from M-D. Loose
> >>>>> fish will be made fast.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Land, like the islands off Argentina (remember that?), resources,
> >>>>> fishing rights, water...air space....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ukraine agreed to give them up and look
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