Putin's Counter Revolution

[David Morris]

The military is always a wild card in these uprisings. Unfortunately
military mind doesn't work well with diverse, unruly and oppositional
groups that make up democracy. So often democracy fails.

I think Ukraine needs a chance to make it work, neo-nazis and all.  They
want to give it a try, non-Putin style.  The want to be in Europe's path,
not Russia's.

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Egypt is  worth considering as regards coups.  Morsi was opposed by
> crowds, but not deposed by them.  Same with Mubarak . Both were deposed by
> the military. It turned out to be a very bad choice for  the original
> revolutionary activists to support this overthrow of  Morsi, an elected
> goverment, just as it was a very bad choice by Morsi to impose an unpopular
> and undemocratic constitution and cut the revolutionary movement in half.
> But with electoral process there was a chance of  bringing the generals
> under civilian rule  and that is gone, the Mubarak regime is being pardoned
> and the Egyptians are back to square one with only a growth of corpses,
> many jailed leaders and lucid clarity about the the military torture state
> they live in.
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 6:06 PM, David Morris wrote:
>
> > So you think the uprising was illegal?  All uprisings are illegal, until
> they succeed. The powers in charge either accede to the political demands,
> or they are deposed, or the put down the uprising then and prosecute or
> kill the participants.
> >
> > Were you outspoken against the Egyptian 2013uprising in which Morsi was
> deposed?
> >
> > The mixed crowd in the Ukraine? Are they better off without Yanukovich?
>  They were willing to die for that result, but only after he started
> killing them in the streets.  Should they have backed down?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 10:41 AM, <kelber at mindspring.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > David, it's hard to believe that you'd want to live under the rule of
> this "mixed crowd," a coalition of neo-Nazis, oligarchs, and political
> opportunists. If there's a prominent spokesperson for human rights among
> them, I haven't been able to ferret them out in the descriptions I've read
> of them. Which part of this mixture excites you? The austerity measures
> they're going to endorse in exchange for NATO bases? Unlike the Greeks, the
> Portuguese, et al, I'm sure the average Ukrainian will be thrilled to see
> wages  and benefits cut, teachers fired, and all the other great perks of
> austerity.
> >
> > It was widely believed by roughly half of Americans that Bush illegally
> stole the election from Gore. Seething as we Blue Staters were under the
> Bush regime, suppose a coalition of Tea Party zealots, Goldman Sachs execs,
> neo-cons, and, oh, say, Sam Walmart (or whatever the hell his name is) had
> declared the government illegitimate and staged an "uprising." And pointed
> to all the progressive demonstrators who'd previously been protesting
> Bush's policies as proof that this was a broadly supported democratic
> "uprising."  And mind you, I'm not even adding any foreign interference
> into the mix. Why do the Ukrainian people deserve less than we do? Their
> former government was shitty, but they had an upcoming shot at voting it
> out. Why is something that I'm pretty sure  you and I would never tolerate
> in our own country, not only good enough for citizens of the Ukraine, but
> worth reviving the Cold War to support?
> >
> > Some additional thoughts from a Scottish editorialist, re: China
> >
> >
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/10700292/Why-China-is-right-on-the-future-of-Ukraine.html#disqus_thread
> >
> > Laura
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Morris
> >
> >
> > You say coup. I say uprising.
> > You say neo-Nazi. I say mixed crowd.
> >
> > On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > Am 18.03.2014 03:00, schrieb David Morris:
> >
> >        an illegal coup against Ukraine's democratically elected leader.
> >
> > The man was a brutal thug profiteer, like Putin.  He chose to be
> > ejected. I don't even care who you think led this coup.  That word makes
> > you look silly.  As silly as ping pong.
> >
> > That this was a coup is undisputable.
> >
> > You don't care whether the United States support neo-Nazis? I find this
> very sad.
> >
> > Thomas (table tennis player, silly me)
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> > - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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