NP - Germany Won't Budge on Austerity: Economic Suicide is Character Building

Thu Oct 16 19:17:54 CDT 2014

My point is that war is never good for an economy, in the short or long
run. Morally, ethically? It may be a last option after all others are
exhausted, to stop genocide, as in stop Hitler...., but I'm not talking
about ethical decisions. War is not good for economies. As you say, it will
increase sales, profits in select industries, give a jolt to a business,
even jump start a depressed economy, but it is always a negative, a
destructive enterprise. You don't need a degree in economics to understand
why this is so. Take Hitler's war and Germany again; total war--occupation,
suppression, exploitation. What economy improved? How did WWII do any good
for any economy in the world? It didn't. And every war since has had the
same impact-negative on economies. Modern economies gain nothing and lose a
lot when they waste investment on war making.

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com> wrote:

> I agree - war is not “good” for much of anything or anyone.  It increases
> the death rate but that does not mean it’s “good.”  It may increase the
> money actually circulating but that’s not necessarily a “good” thing,
> either -  right?  Like saying the ebola crisis is good for CNN.  ?   What’s
> the good in that?
>
> Bekah
>
> On Oct 16, 2014, at 4:15 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Well, murder is good for the funeral industry, but not for an economy.
> > Same with war, murder and destruction of labor, assets, resources on a
> > grand scale. If an economy needs a shot in the arm, war won't do it.It
> > may, as any other shot in the arm may, give the economy a shove, but
> > it's a negative all round. Just think about it. War kills workers,
> > destroys land and infrastructure, destroys food and farms, cattle and
> > agricultural equipment, causes illness and depression etc. nothing
> > good comes from war. never.
> > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> But the government won’t raise taxes the unless it’s for war and other
> forms of gun power.  Gotta go to war - not make schools or roads or
> hospitals.
> >>
> >> Until WWI folks thought that war was bad for the economy - it
> interfered with growth and trade and that was a no-no. (Think Civil War.)
>  After WWI folks thought there was so much money-making by the defense
> industry they refused to get involved in WWII until we ourselves were
> bombed.   Also,  WWII preparations pushed Germany out of the Great
> Depression and it gave the US a final little shove.  The defense industries
> and the military itself put people to work and the soldiers needed stuff
> like boots and food.
> >>
> >> So the prevailing thought (myth)  was that war was good for economies
> and the war in Vietnam seemed to reflect that what with the boom times in
> the ‘60s.
> >>
> >> Too bad, so sad, we’re learning the wrong lessons again -  war is very,
> very good for SOME parts of the economy and which ones has changed. It’s
> almost entirely defense industries getting the bucks these days.  In the
> past it was good for boot-makers and belt-makers and any vender who could
> manage to get a contract with the military. And those newly employed
> workers spent money.  With everything being automated very few industries
> benefit from war.  We’re apparently willing to be taxed for war but not for
> food, health, education, hospitals, roads, science,  etc.
> >>
> >> Trouble comes in transferring to a peacetime economy - but it worked
> after WWII - because Uncle Sam was paying for an incredible infrastructure
> in schools and a highway system, etc.  Not so today.  Today the government
> doesn’t seem to want to put money into the economy in any other way - food
> stamps are even cut,  health care, nothing except war will be funded by the
> government.
> >>
> >> just my random thoughts cuz I have a button there -
> >>
> >> Bekah
> >> On Oct 16, 2014, at 2:20 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The arms industry can manage without a war economy. and, more to the
> >>> point, so can the rest of the world.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 4:47 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>> It is very good for the arms industry.  But, like I said, that's
> another
> >>>> story.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:30 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> War profiteering? Jeez, when will people stop with this nonsense. War
> >>>>> is never, ever good for anyhing, certainly not an  economy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Highly debatable set of assertions disputed by many economists,
> >>>>>> particularly those who predicted the 2008 debacle. The " recovery'
> is once
> >>>>>> again fueled by questionable derivatives, and war profiteering." In
> a
> >>>>>> September 24th article titled “5 US Banks Each Have More Than 40
> Trillion
> >>>>>> Dollars In Exposure To Derivatives, Michael Snyder warns:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Trading in derivatives is basically just a form of legalized
> gambling,
> >>>>>> and the “too big to fail” banks have transformed Wall Street into
> the
> >>>>>> largest casino in the history of the planet. When this derivatives
> bubble
> >>>>>> bursts (and as surely as I am writing this it will), the pain that
> it will
> >>>>>> cause the global economy will be greater than words can describe.
> >>>>>> The too-big-to-fail banks have collectively grown 37% larger since
> 2008.
> >>>>>> Five banks now account for 42% of all US loans, and six banks
> control 67% of
> >>>>>> all banking assets.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Besides their reckless derivatives gambling, these monster-sized
> banks
> >>>>>> have earned our distrust by being caught in a litany of frauds. In
> an
> >>>>>> article in Forbes titled “Big Banks and Derivatives: Why Another
> Financial
> >>>>>> Crisis Is Inevitable,” Steve Denning lists rigging municipal bond
> interest
> >>>>>> rates, LIBOR price-fixing, foreclosure abuses, money laundering, tax
> >>>>>> evasion, and misleading clients with worthless securities.This is
> not real
> >>>>>> economic strength but the power of an empire facing self
> destruction. "
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The EU was based on flawed presumptions and even Germany is having
> to
> >>>>>> face that.
> >>>>>> On Oct 14, 2014, at 6:03 AM, alice malice wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, one could argue that the US recovery is a jobless one, that
> is,
> >>>>>>> a recovery that exposes shrinking labor force, much of it
> demographic
> >>>>>>> baby boomer retirement etc.,  though the jury is still out on the
> >>>>>>> cyclical or structural causes of the shrinking labor force, and,
> wages
> >>>>>>> have not budged, but neither has inflation, though the US is not,
> as
> >>>>>>> Europe is, in a dis-inflationary and deflationary cycle...so, to
> make
> >>>>>>> a long story short, one can argue that the US has a weak recovery,
> one
> >>>>>>> that has not done all that much for wage earners, the poor, the
> >>>>>>> working classes,  but one can not argue that the US has no
> recovery.
> >>>>>>> We have a major recovery in place. Europe does not. And, the US has
> >>>>>>> put the financial crisis behind, has built a new energy policy and
> >>>>>>> structure, has positioned itself for additional growth. Not so in
> >>>>>>> Europe.  These are not nationalistic claims. Simple economics. Our
> >>>>>>> housing crisis is over, our banking crisis is over, our massive QE
> is
> >>>>>>> ending, our economy has recovered and, though it faces headwinds
> from
> >>>>>>> Europe, Japan, the geo-politials, it will, as the IMF says, pull
> the
> >>>>>>> world economy, not China, not the BRICS plus SA.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Otto <ottosell at googlemail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Can't see that "America has recovered". And your "Union" is as
> split
> >>>>>>>> as ours, economically and ethnically.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2014-10-13 15:07 GMT+02:00 David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>:
> >>>>>>>>> Clearly this response shows the weakness of the Euro: the
> "Union" is
> >>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>> farce.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> But Germany won't be able to stand alone for long.  If Europe is
> >>>>>>>>> screwed, so
> >>>>>>>>> is Germany.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:53 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> >>>>>>>>> <lorentzen at hotmail.de <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 12.10.2014 12:09, alice malice wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Europe is screwed. And Germany is only doing what it needs to
> do to
> >>>>>>>>>> get in a better position to recover over the longer term.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Amen!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -
> >>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>> -
> >>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> -
> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
>
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