NP - Germany Won't Budge on Austerity: Economic Suicide is Character Building

Thu Oct 16 22:32:14 CDT 2014

A gang breaking window glass is only financially good for the glazer.

On Thursday, October 16, 2014, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:

> My point is that war is never good for an economy, in the short or long
> run. Morally, ethically? It may be a last option after all others are
> exhausted, to stop genocide, as in stop Hitler...., but I'm not talking
> about ethical decisions. War is not good for economies. As you say, it will
> increase sales, profits in select industries, give a jolt to a business,
> even jump start a depressed economy, but it is always a negative, a
> destructive enterprise. You don't need a degree in economics to understand
> why this is so. Take Hitler's war and Germany again; total war--occupation,
> suppression, exploitation. What economy improved? How did WWII do any good
> for any economy in the world? It didn't. And every war since has had the
> same impact-negative on economies. Modern economies gain nothing and lose a
> lot when they waste investment on war making.
>
> On Thursday, October 16, 2014, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bekker2 at icloud.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I agree - war is not “good” for much of anything or anyone.  It increases
>> the death rate but that does not mean it’s “good.”  It may increase the
>> money actually circulating but that’s not necessarily a “good” thing,
>> either -  right?  Like saying the ebola crisis is good for CNN.  ?   What’s
>> the good in that?
>>
>> Bekah
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2014, at 4:15 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Well, murder is good for the funeral industry, but not for an economy.
>> > Same with war, murder and destruction of labor, assets, resources on a
>> > grand scale. If an economy needs a shot in the arm, war won't do it.It
>> > may, as any other shot in the arm may, give the economy a shove, but
>> > it's a negative all round. Just think about it. War kills workers,
>> > destroys land and infrastructure, destroys food and farms, cattle and
>> > agricultural equipment, causes illness and depression etc. nothing
>> > good comes from war. never.
>> > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> But the government won’t raise taxes the unless it’s for war and other
>> forms of gun power.  Gotta go to war - not make schools or roads or
>> hospitals.
>> >>
>> >> Until WWI folks thought that war was bad for the economy - it
>> interfered with growth and trade and that was a no-no. (Think Civil War.)
>>  After WWI folks thought there was so much money-making by the defense
>> industry they refused to get involved in WWII until we ourselves were
>> bombed.   Also,  WWII preparations pushed Germany out of the Great
>> Depression and it gave the US a final little shove.  The defense industries
>> and the military itself put people to work and the soldiers needed stuff
>> like boots and food.
>> >>
>> >> So the prevailing thought (myth)  was that war was good for economies
>> and the war in Vietnam seemed to reflect that what with the boom times in
>> the ‘60s.
>> >>
>> >> Too bad, so sad, we’re learning the wrong lessons again -  war is
>> very, very good for SOME parts of the economy and which ones has changed.
>> It’s almost entirely defense industries getting the bucks these days.  In
>> the past it was good for boot-makers and belt-makers and any vender who
>> could manage to get a contract with the military. And those newly employed
>> workers spent money.  With everything being automated very few industries
>> benefit from war.  We’re apparently willing to be taxed for war but not for
>> food, health, education, hospitals, roads, science,  etc.
>> >>
>> >> Trouble comes in transferring to a peacetime economy - but it worked
>> after WWII - because Uncle Sam was paying for an incredible infrastructure
>> in schools and a highway system, etc.  Not so today.  Today the government
>> doesn’t seem to want to put money into the economy in any other way - food
>> stamps are even cut,  health care, nothing except war will be funded by the
>> government.
>> >>
>> >> just my random thoughts cuz I have a button there -
>> >>
>> >> Bekah
>> >> On Oct 16, 2014, at 2:20 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The arms industry can manage without a war economy. and, more to the
>> >>> point, so can the rest of the world.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 4:47 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>> It is very good for the arms industry.  But, like I said, that's
>> another
>> >>>> story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:30 PM, alice malice <
>> alicewmalice at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> War profiteering? Jeez, when will people stop with this nonsense.
>> War
>> >>>>> is never, ever good for anyhing, certainly not an  economy.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Highly debatable set of assertions disputed by many economists,
>> >>>>>> particularly those who predicted the 2008 debacle. The " recovery'
>> is once
>> >>>>>> again fueled by questionable derivatives, and war profiteering."
>> In a
>> >>>>>> September 24th article titled “5 US Banks Each Have More Than 40
>> Trillion
>> >>>>>> Dollars In Exposure To Derivatives, Michael Snyder warns:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Trading in derivatives is basically just a form of legalized
>> gambling,
>> >>>>>> and the “too big to fail” banks have transformed Wall Street into
>> the
>> >>>>>> largest casino in the history of the planet. When this derivatives
>> bubble
>> >>>>>> bursts (and as surely as I am writing this it will), the pain that
>> it will
>> >>>>>> cause the global economy will be greater than words can describe.
>> >>>>>> The too-big-to-fail banks have collectively grown 37% larger since
>> 2008.
>> >>>>>> Five banks now account for 42% of all US loans, and six banks
>> control 67% of
>> >>>>>> all banking assets.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Besides their reckless derivatives gambling, these monster-sized
>> banks
>> >>>>>> have earned our distrust by being caught in a litany of frauds. In
>> an
>> >>>>>> article in Forbes titled “Big Banks and Derivatives: Why Another
>> Financial
>> >>>>>> Crisis Is Inevitable,” Steve Denning lists rigging municipal bond
>> interest
>> >>>>>> rates, LIBOR price-fixing, foreclosure abuses, money laundering,
>> tax
>> >>>>>> evasion, and misleading clients with worthless securities.This is
>> not real
>> >>>>>> economic strength but the power of an empire facing self
>> destruction. "
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The EU was based on flawed presumptions and even Germany is having
>> to
>> >>>>>> face that.
>> >>>>>> On Oct 14, 2014, at 6:03 AM, alice malice wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Well, one could argue that the US recovery is a jobless one, that
>> is,
>> >>>>>>> a recovery that exposes shrinking labor force, much of it
>> demographic
>> >>>>>>> baby boomer retirement etc.,  though the jury is still out on the
>> >>>>>>> cyclical or structural causes of the shrinking labor force, and,
>> wages
>> >>>>>>> have not budged, but neither has inflation, though the US is not,
>> as
>> >>>>>>> Europe is, in a dis-inflationary and deflationary cycle...so, to
>> make
>> >>>>>>> a long story short, one can argue that the US has a weak
>> recovery, one
>> >>>>>>> that has not done all that much for wage earners, the poor, the
>> >>>>>>> working classes,  but one can not argue that the US has no
>> recovery.
>> >>>>>>> We have a major recovery in place. Europe does not. And, the US
>> has
>> >>>>>>> put the financial crisis behind, has built a new energy policy and
>> >>>>>>> structure, has positioned itself for additional growth. Not so in
>> >>>>>>> Europe.  These are not nationalistic claims. Simple economics. Our
>> >>>>>>> housing crisis is over, our banking crisis is over, our massive
>> QE is
>> >>>>>>> ending, our economy has recovered and, though it faces headwinds
>> from
>> >>>>>>> Europe, Japan, the geo-politials, it will, as the IMF says, pull
>> the
>> >>>>>>> world economy, not China, not the BRICS plus SA.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Otto <ottosell at googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Can't see that "America has recovered". And your "Union" is as
>> split
>> >>>>>>>> as ours, economically and ethnically.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 2014-10-13 15:07 GMT+02:00 David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>:
>> >>>>>>>>> Clearly this response shows the weakness of the Euro: the
>> "Union" is
>> >>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>> farce.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> But Germany won't be able to stand alone for long.  If Europe is
>> >>>>>>>>> screwed, so
>> >>>>>>>>> is Germany.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:53 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>> >>>>>>>>> <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12.10.2014 12:09, alice malice wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Europe is screwed. And Germany is only doing what it needs to
>> do to
>> >>>>>>>>>> get in a better position to recover over the longer term.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Amen!
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -
>> >>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>>>>> -
>> >>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -
>> >>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >>>>> -
>> >>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> -
>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>
>> > -
>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>>
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