M&D - Chapter 21 - Nabob

Wed Apr 15 04:06:37 CDT 2015

Thanks, thought at much. It sounds quite silly as far as words go. 

Pynchon seems to sprinkle it about a little even in the next chapters. We’ll see how long it lasts.

> 13. apr. 2015 kl. 15.43 skrev Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>:
> 
> "Mogul" was and is more common for the wealthy and powerful. "Nabob" was archaic/exotic to an American ear even when Agnew's speechwriter, the egregious William Safire, used it in 1970.  Outside of histories and historical fiction, I can't remember seeing or hearing it since *except* in reference to that speech, or to its premise that *real* Americans are quietly content, while critics are not to be taken seriously (cf. Tory usage of "the chattering classes" in the UK).
> 
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Elisabeth Romberg <eromberg at mac.com <mailto:eromberg at mac.com>> wrote:
> p. 209
> 
> Nabob, meaning:
> Somtimes a picture says it all… 
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0EdR8gy0NuM/VJfaCSjPReI/AAAAAAAABOM/3DPP7xmbuDM/s1600/%2BBritish%2Bnabobs%2B8f878ea0803189dcd4867928ffaf1eb9_M.jpg <http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0EdR8gy0NuM/VJfaCSjPReI/AAAAAAAABOM/3DPP7xmbuDM/s1600/%2BBritish%2Bnabobs%2B8f878ea0803189dcd4867928ffaf1eb9_M.jpg> 
> 
> "An Anglo-Indian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Indian> term for a conspicuously wealthy man who made his fortune in the Orient <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient>, especially in the Indian subcontinent <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_subcontinent>. It also refers to an East India Company <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company> servant who had become wealthy through corrupt trade and other practices."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabob <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabob>
> 
> Also an expression famously used by Nixon’s speechwriter William Safire in a speech by vice-president Spiro Agnew:
> http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Nabobs_natter_about_the_passing_of_William_Safire_1929-2009.html <http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Nabobs_natter_about_the_passing_of_William_Safire_1929-2009.html>
> 
> I am curious to know, what is the contemporary understanding/use, if any, in the English language today? What sort of associations does it bring forth in you? 
> 
> —
> 
> Elsewhere on the page, from Pynchon wiki:
> Pelhamites
> Followers of Henry Pelham (25 September 1694 – 6 March 1754), a British Whig statesman, who served as Prime Minister of Great Britain from 27 August 1743 until his death in 1754. He was the younger brother of the politician the Duke of Newcastle who succeeded him as Prime Minister. From WIKI <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Pelham>.
> Placeman
> British- a person appointed to a position, esp. one in the government, as a reward for political support of an elected official.
> http://masondixon.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Chapter_21:_207-214 <http://masondixon.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Chapter_21:_207-214>
> 
> 
>> 12. apr. 2015 kl. 19.13 skrev Elisabeth Romberg <eromberg at mac.com <mailto:eromberg at mac.com>>:
>> 
>> Next paragraph, an imagined dialogue between Mason and his father as Jerome points out. Do you agree, though, that the last sentence: «All subjunctive, of course, had young Mason gone to his father, this might have been the conversation likely to result.» is over the top. I mean it’s not as if we’ve forgotten it was imaginary from the start?
>> 
>> Don't you feel a little underestimated as a reader? 
>> 
>> ;)
>> 
>>> 12. apr. 2015 kl. 14.07 skrev Elisabeth Romberg <eromberg at mac.com <mailto:eromberg at mac.com>>:
>>> 
>>> In the next paragraph we are with Mason an Rebekah, early days. 
>>> We learn how he longs to get away from The Golden Valleys, but what is Rebekah’s agenda? We got the impression in chapter 18 that something was up with her.
>>> 
>>> (p. 170-171, she new who he was, a star-gazer. But most telling, on p. 186, «A Pair of Gentlemen came to me one day and said, ‘Here is the one you must marry.’»)
>>> 
>>> So it’s hard not to have this in the back of the mind when we read about their dating and courtship. 
>>> Maybe even explore feelings of sadness for Mason? For being kept in the dark by Rebekah?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 12. apr. 2015 kl. 13.43 skrev Elisabeth Romberg <eromberg at mac.com <mailto:eromberg at mac.com>>:
>>>> 
>>>> p. 207
>>>> «…that the Flow of Water through Nature (…) might be re-shap’d to drive a Row of Looms, each working thousands of Yarns in strictest right-angularity, (…) nor that every stage of the ‘Morphosis, would have it’s equivalent in Pounds, Shillings and Pence."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Stroud is the capital of the south western Cotswolds and located at the divergence of the five Golden Valleys (Chalford, Painswick, Nailsworth, Slad and Cam), so named after the monetary wealth created in the processing of wool from the plentiful supply of power from the River Frome. During the heyday of the wool trade the river powered 150 mills, turning Stroud into the centre of the local cloth industry.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Is this first paragraph about the inhumanity of the working conditions at the mills?
>>>> To the benefit of the few?
>>>> 
>>>> About the working conditions at the mills:
>>>> http://www.bacuptimes.co.uk/earlydays.htm <http://www.bacuptimes.co.uk/earlydays.htm>
>>>> So sad.
>>>> 
>>>> Mills today:
>>>> http://plenty.mangoconsulting.co.uk/assets/files/press/2015/Cots%20Life%20Jan%2015%20-%20Stroud%20mills.pdf <http://plenty.mangoconsulting.co.uk/assets/files/press/2015/Cots%20Life%20Jan%2015%20-%20Stroud%20mills.pdf>
>>>> http://www.visitthecotswolds.org.uk/general.asp?pid=22&pgid=822 <http://www.visitthecotswolds.org.uk/general.asp?pid=22&pgid=822>
>>>> 
>>>> "Britain from above" showing Fromehall and Lodgemore Woollen Mills and environs, in Stroud, 1938:
>>>> http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw059695?name=STROUD&gazetteer=STROUD&POPULATED_PLACE=STROUD&ADMIN_AREA=Stroud&ref=49 <http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw059695?name=STROUD&gazetteer=STROUD&POPULATED_PLACE=STROUD&ADMIN_AREA=Stroud&ref=49>
>> 
> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20150415/fc1e5b38/attachment.html>